1 00:01:11,867 --> 00:01:14,400 Hello and welcome to our 2 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:15,533 Hello and welcome to our closing session of Google’s 3 00:01:15,533 --> 00:01:17,434 closing session of Google’s annual meeting 2020, So I’m 4 00:01:17,434 --> 00:01:19,600 annual meeting 2020, So I’m going to and I’m the director 5 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,266 going to and I’m the director of Frugal and I’m very pleased 6 00:01:21,266 --> 00:01:23,767 of Frugal and I’m very pleased and honored to welcome uh to 7 00:01:23,767 --> 00:01:26,600 and honored to welcome uh to this uh closing session uh is 8 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,267 this uh closing session uh is to the is to uh is um uh a 9 00:01:30,267 --> 00:01:32,667 to the is to uh is um uh a professor for um development 10 00:01:32,667 --> 00:01:35,433 professor for um development economics and poverty research 11 00:01:35,433 --> 00:01:36,634 economics and poverty research at the Massachusetts Institute 12 00:01:36,634 --> 00:01:39,167 at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT, and she is 13 00:01:39,167 --> 00:01:40,767 of Technology, MIT, and she is of course, also a Nobel 14 00:01:40,767 --> 00:01:43,466 of course, also a Nobel laureate in economics and has 15 00:01:43,466 --> 00:01:46,800 laureate in economics and has written. A book on Good 16 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,467 written. A book on Good economics for Hard times not 17 00:01:48,467 --> 00:01:51,767 economics for Hard times not hard times but harder times and 18 00:01:51,767 --> 00:01:53,667 hard times but harder times and she will present um parts of 19 00:01:53,667 --> 00:01:55,800 she will present um parts of that book um but I think she 20 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,800 that book um but I think she will also want to strike um 21 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,933 will also want to strike um perhaps a bit more hopeful note 22 00:01:59,933 --> 00:02:01,800 perhaps a bit more hopeful note um arguing that today’s 23 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,301 um arguing that today’s epidemic um is perhaps also an 24 00:02:04,301 --> 00:02:05,867 epidemic um is perhaps also an opportunity for the future and 25 00:02:05,867 --> 00:02:09,100 opportunity for the future and so we very much look forward to 26 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:12,234 so we very much look forward to your keynote speech um Esther 27 00:02:12,234 --> 00:02:13,533 your keynote speech um Esther um and um following your 28 00:02:13,533 --> 00:02:15,733 um and um following your keynote speech um we will um 29 00:02:15,733 --> 00:02:17,667 keynote speech um we will um have a bit of time for 30 00:02:17,667 --> 00:02:18,766 have a bit of time for discussion um also for to get 31 00:02:18,766 --> 00:02:21,966 discussion um also for to get some questions from the. And uh 32 00:02:21,966 --> 00:02:23,767 some questions from the. And uh let me apologize again that we 33 00:02:23,767 --> 00:02:25,667 let me apologize again that we are a few minutes late um but 34 00:02:25,667 --> 00:02:27,000 are a few minutes late um but thank you for being here with 35 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,100 thank you for being here with us and I look forward to your 36 00:02:29,100 --> 00:02:35,200 us and I look forward to your speech. Thank you very much. 37 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:36,033 speech. Thank you very much. Indeed, the book we wrote is 38 00:02:36,033 --> 00:02:37,467 Indeed, the book we wrote is actually called good economics 39 00:02:37,467 --> 00:02:41,000 actually called good economics for hard times, but uh since we 40 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:41,833 for hard times, but uh since we ordered and it got published in 41 00:02:41,833 --> 00:02:46,300 ordered and it got published in the US in November, um the of 42 00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:49,000 the US in November, um the of 2019 uh twenty on the ground 43 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,233 2019 uh twenty on the ground and the times have become 44 00:02:50,233 --> 00:02:52,000 and the times have become harder. So I’ve decided to call 45 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,233 harder. So I’ve decided to call this for a time to talk a bit 46 00:02:55,233 --> 00:02:58,267 this for a time to talk a bit about uh some of the lessons 47 00:02:58,267 --> 00:03:01,300 about uh some of the lessons from this book for the Kobi and 48 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:03,699 from this book for the Kobi and the ratio of heightened 49 00:03:03,699 --> 00:03:05,333 the ratio of heightened awareness of racial injustice. 50 00:03:05,333 --> 00:03:10,133 awareness of racial injustice. it’s time. time. 51 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,966 Um most issues that are the 52 00:03:12,966 --> 00:03:14,267 Um most issues that are the core issue that we have to deal 53 00:03:14,267 --> 00:03:19,633 core issue that we have to deal with today uh core economic 54 00:03:19,633 --> 00:03:22,267 with today uh core economic issue uh so people worry about 55 00:03:22,267 --> 00:03:24,000 issue uh so people worry about uh before when we wrote this 56 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,400 uh before when we wrote this book and what this book is 57 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:26,834 book and what this book is about come from the issues such 58 00:03:26,834 --> 00:03:29,234 about come from the issues such as Brexit and trade policy and 59 00:03:29,234 --> 00:03:30,333 as Brexit and trade policy and immigration and go and 60 00:03:30,333 --> 00:03:31,967 immigration and go and inequality and social policy 61 00:03:31,967 --> 00:03:34,301 inequality and social policy and climate change. And since 62 00:03:34,301 --> 00:03:36,833 and climate change. And since then we we’ve added uh uh at 63 00:03:36,833 --> 00:03:39,767 then we we’ve added uh uh at least two major issues uh in 64 00:03:39,767 --> 00:03:41,334 least two major issues uh in the US one is of course the 65 00:03:41,334 --> 00:03:44,633 the US one is of course the pandemic and it’s uh economy. 66 00:03:44,633 --> 00:03:45,933 pandemic and it’s uh economy. Uh which we’ve added in the US 67 00:03:45,933 --> 00:03:48,399 Uh which we’ve added in the US and world wide and one which is 68 00:03:48,399 --> 00:03:49,966 and world wide and one which is maybe more US specific at the 69 00:03:49,966 --> 00:03:50,834 maybe more US specific at the moment, but I don’t think it 70 00:03:50,834 --> 00:03:53,399 moment, but I don’t think it will stay you a specific is the 71 00:03:53,399 --> 00:03:56,666 will stay you a specific is the uh the question of criticism 72 00:03:56,666 --> 00:03:58,567 uh the question of criticism and discrimination, and of 73 00:03:58,567 --> 00:04:00,133 and discrimination, and of course, all of these issues are 74 00:04:00,133 --> 00:04:01,466 course, all of these issues are issues that economists have 75 00:04:01,466 --> 00:04:03,467 issues that economists have written a lot about continue to 76 00:04:03,467 --> 00:04:04,800 written a lot about continue to hide a lot about they had not 77 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,166 hide a lot about they had not written much about it, but 78 00:04:07,166 --> 00:04:08,933 written much about it, but didn’t know how but 79 00:04:08,933 --> 00:04:10,167 didn’t know how but unfortunately, no one will 80 00:04:10,167 --> 00:04:11,734 unfortunately, no one will listen to them are all that 81 00:04:11,734 --> 00:04:14,199 listen to them are all that much uh so uh shortly after 82 00:04:14,199 --> 00:04:17,367 much uh so uh shortly after Brexit there was um a pool by 83 00:04:17,367 --> 00:04:20,867 Brexit there was um a pool by you in the UK uh about. That 84 00:04:20,867 --> 00:04:23,400 you in the UK uh about. That people have for values experts 85 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:24,900 people have for values experts and you can see that nurses and 86 00:04:24,900 --> 00:04:27,734 and you can see that nurses and doctors are at the very top for 87 00:04:27,734 --> 00:04:29,600 doctors are at the very top for politicians are the very bottom 88 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,634 politicians are the very bottom and just before petitions are 89 00:04:31,634 --> 00:04:34,600 and just before petitions are economy who 25% of the 90 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,767 economy who 25% of the economies Trust economic on 91 00:04:36,767 --> 00:04:37,433 economies Trust economic on economics. and of course, this 92 00:04:37,433 --> 00:04:39,800 economics. and of course, this is not about other issues that 93 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,467 is not about other issues that they might be talking about uh 94 00:04:41,467 --> 00:04:43,800 they might be talking about uh this is about half of the rate 95 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,234 this is about half of the rate of trust and joy by weather 96 00:04:46,234 --> 00:04:47,600 of trust and joy by weather forecast uh to give you a sense 97 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:53,201 forecast uh to give you a sense of how um how bad that is so. 98 00:04:53,201 --> 00:04:55,600 of how um how bad that is so. Not only people do not trust 99 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,299 Not only people do not trust economist, but I’ve been the 100 00:04:57,299 --> 00:04:59,933 economist, but I’ve been the result on most issues are they 101 00:04:59,933 --> 00:05:01,367 result on most issues are they also disagree very strongly 102 00:05:01,367 --> 00:05:03,233 also disagree very strongly with what most economists 103 00:05:03,233 --> 00:05:06,299 with what most economists believe so one thing we did uh 104 00:05:06,299 --> 00:05:07,800 believe so one thing we did uh for the in preparation for the 105 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,834 for the in preparation for the book is of your um a survey was 106 00:05:10,834 --> 00:05:13,000 book is of your um a survey was about 10000 Americans so the 107 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,199 about 10000 Americans so the first thing is we replicate the 108 00:05:14,199 --> 00:05:15,967 first thing is we replicate the for the US the same type of 109 00:05:15,967 --> 00:05:17,233 for the US the same type of reserves for you that you go 110 00:05:17,233 --> 00:05:19,866 reserves for you that you go from in the UK uh and in 111 00:05:19,866 --> 00:05:21,299 from in the UK uh and in addition, we ask our 112 00:05:21,299 --> 00:05:24,734 addition, we ask our respondents um questions very 113 00:05:24,734 --> 00:05:25,533 respondents um questions very similar to what have been what 114 00:05:25,533 --> 00:05:29,199 similar to what have been what I asked accordingly. Panel of 115 00:05:29,199 --> 00:05:31,133 I asked accordingly. Panel of academic economists in very 116 00:05:31,133 --> 00:05:31,799 academic economists in very good institution by the 117 00:05:31,799 --> 00:05:35,266 good institution by the University of Chicago and we 118 00:05:35,266 --> 00:05:36,000 University of Chicago and we ask those exact same question 119 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,167 ask those exact same question to the public to compare their 120 00:05:38,167 --> 00:05:39,933 to the public to compare their their answers. One of those 121 00:05:39,933 --> 00:05:42,234 their answers. One of those questions is on globalization 122 00:05:42,234 --> 00:05:43,867 questions is on globalization would ask them on the time 123 00:05:43,867 --> 00:05:45,367 would ask them on the time where a President Trump was 124 00:05:45,367 --> 00:05:47,300 where a President Trump was discussing imposing new tariffs 125 00:05:47,300 --> 00:05:49,400 discussing imposing new tariffs on steel and aluminum and ask 126 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,533 on steel and aluminum and ask whether the uh those uh those 127 00:05:51,533 --> 00:05:53,834 whether the uh those uh those those experts so that it was a 128 00:05:53,834 --> 00:05:56,201 those experts so that it was a good idea or not so I tell you 129 00:05:56,201 --> 00:05:58,167 good idea or not so I tell you what the expert, but we asked 130 00:05:58,167 --> 00:05:59,967 what the expert, but we asked exactly the same question to 131 00:05:59,967 --> 00:06:03,134 exactly the same question to have. Respondent and we found 132 00:06:03,134 --> 00:06:04,366 have. Respondent and we found out about a lot of people think 133 00:06:04,366 --> 00:06:07,267 out about a lot of people think that uh imposing new serum 134 00:06:07,267 --> 00:06:11,201 that uh imposing new serum would be good for American well 135 00:06:11,201 --> 00:06:12,733 would be good for American well being, and you might be 136 00:06:12,733 --> 00:06:14,333 being, and you might be thinking that I’m now going in 137 00:06:14,333 --> 00:06:16,100 thinking that I’m now going in the next life to show you the 138 00:06:16,100 --> 00:06:17,767 the next life to show you the back or the experts, but in 139 00:06:17,767 --> 00:06:20,267 back or the experts, but in fact, this is the battle of the 140 00:06:20,267 --> 00:06:21,767 fact, this is the battle of the experts among the people in the 141 00:06:21,767 --> 00:06:24,167 experts among the people in the panel. No one so that this is a 142 00:06:24,167 --> 00:06:24,833 panel. No one so that this is a good idea and for full 143 00:06:24,833 --> 00:06:26,267 good idea and for full disclosure. I’m not part of 144 00:06:26,267 --> 00:06:29,734 disclosure. I’m not part of this panel but my husband and 145 00:06:29,734 --> 00:06:31,267 this panel but my husband and Haji is and he was one of the 146 00:06:31,267 --> 00:06:33,333 Haji is and he was one of the people who didn’t think it was 147 00:06:33,333 --> 00:06:36,700 people who didn’t think it was a good idea. 148 00:06:36,766 --> 00:06:39,267 So why dismiss between the 149 00:06:39,267 --> 00:06:44,800 So why dismiss between the public and economist and well? 150 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,667 public and economist and well? maybe they are good isn’t uh 151 00:06:48,667 --> 00:06:52,633 maybe they are good isn’t uh one uh of the headline that uh 152 00:06:52,633 --> 00:06:55,767 one uh of the headline that uh I came in uh the New York Times 153 00:06:55,767 --> 00:06:59,300 I came in uh the New York Times uh in I think April is this one 154 00:06:59,300 --> 00:07:00,767 uh in I think April is this one economic dominated by white men 155 00:07:00,767 --> 00:07:02,234 economic dominated by white men is followed by the Black Lives 156 00:07:02,234 --> 00:07:03,966 is followed by the Black Lives Matter and indeed economist is 157 00:07:03,966 --> 00:07:07,834 Matter and indeed economist is a very non diverse uh field. Uh 158 00:07:07,834 --> 00:07:09,834 a very non diverse uh field. Uh some of the people in this room 159 00:07:09,834 --> 00:07:11,633 some of the people in this room have been like, for example, 160 00:07:11,633 --> 00:07:14,201 have been like, for example, the editors of the Journal of 161 00:07:14,201 --> 00:07:16,634 the editors of the Journal of Political economy have uh have 162 00:07:16,634 --> 00:07:18,933 Political economy have uh have a strong opinion uh which are 163 00:07:18,933 --> 00:07:21,266 a strong opinion uh which are let’s a representative of the 164 00:07:21,266 --> 00:07:22,667 let’s a representative of the state of school, then where a 165 00:07:22,667 --> 00:07:25,167 state of school, then where a lot of the um a lot of the 166 00:07:25,167 --> 00:07:27,733 lot of the um a lot of the thinking from the public might 167 00:07:27,733 --> 00:07:29,267 thinking from the public might be. I’m not saying, is that uh 168 00:07:29,267 --> 00:07:30,667 be. I’m not saying, is that uh many people think that they’re 169 00:07:30,667 --> 00:07:33,367 many people think that they’re gonna miss out there to 170 00:07:33,367 --> 00:07:34,934 gonna miss out there to different to defend the start 171 00:07:34,934 --> 00:07:39,266 different to defend the start of school and again. The racial 172 00:07:39,266 --> 00:07:41,934 of school and again. The racial contest the words for uh 173 00:07:41,934 --> 00:07:44,767 contest the words for uh published um an opinion pieces 174 00:07:44,767 --> 00:07:48,400 published um an opinion pieces based on economic peoples uh um 175 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,333 based on economic peoples uh um kind to them the myth of 176 00:07:50,333 --> 00:07:53,700 kind to them the myth of systematic racism. so the idea 177 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:55,300 systematic racism. so the idea is that once again, in a sense, 178 00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:56,767 is that once again, in a sense, the economists we have seen as 179 00:07:56,767 --> 00:07:59,233 the economists we have seen as kind of presented in such a 180 00:07:59,233 --> 00:08:01,067 kind of presented in such a school and one could say well, 181 00:08:01,067 --> 00:08:02,299 school and one could say well, you know, and that’s one reason 182 00:08:02,299 --> 00:08:04,267 you know, and that’s one reason why they are mistrust and the 183 00:08:04,267 --> 00:08:05,467 why they are mistrust and the reason why they’re often a 184 00:08:05,467 --> 00:08:08,000 reason why they’re often a present. Presenting the school 185 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,266 present. Presenting the school is very little critical 186 00:08:10,266 --> 00:08:11,267 is very little critical thinking about whether it’s 187 00:08:11,267 --> 00:08:12,833 thinking about whether it’s worth it or not is because 188 00:08:12,833 --> 00:08:14,500 worth it or not is because often they are because you’re 189 00:08:14,500 --> 00:08:15,934 often they are because you’re gonna need that in the most 190 00:08:15,934 --> 00:08:18,166 gonna need that in the most frequently on the division uh 191 00:08:18,166 --> 00:08:20,700 frequently on the division uh not only professionally 192 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:22,334 not only professionally economic things things are in 193 00:08:22,334 --> 00:08:24,699 economic things things are in getting there, but rather the 194 00:08:24,699 --> 00:08:25,867 getting there, but rather the chief financial officer of 195 00:08:25,867 --> 00:08:28,934 chief financial officer of banks and the present those 196 00:08:28,934 --> 00:08:31,333 banks and the present those interest as opposed to a wider 197 00:08:31,333 --> 00:08:34,234 interest as opposed to a wider profession. profession. Another 198 00:08:34,234 --> 00:08:35,667 profession. profession. Another reason why people mistrust 199 00:08:35,667 --> 00:08:37,100 reason why people mistrust economist is that they are in 200 00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:37,800 economist is that they are in the business of making 201 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,066 the business of making predictions and they’re 202 00:08:39,066 --> 00:08:42,633 predictions and they’re terrible at it and so whenever 203 00:08:42,633 --> 00:08:45,000 terrible at it and so whenever the there is a recession, it’s 204 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,566 the there is a recession, it’s been missed systematically 205 00:08:46,566 --> 00:08:48,767 been missed systematically boosted by the IMF and by 206 00:08:48,767 --> 00:08:50,200 boosted by the IMF and by professional forecasters, 207 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,900 professional forecasters, according to the IMF people. So 208 00:08:53,900 --> 00:08:57,233 according to the IMF people. So maybe we could just give up uh 209 00:08:57,233 --> 00:08:57,966 maybe we could just give up uh especially in this in this time 210 00:08:57,966 --> 00:09:00,467 especially in this in this time and so yes, it’s you know we 211 00:09:00,467 --> 00:09:01,799 and so yes, it’s you know we are not maybe the most 212 00:09:01,799 --> 00:09:05,300 are not maybe the most relevant. maybe what we need 213 00:09:05,300 --> 00:09:06,866 relevant. maybe what we need Astrologist that can help us 214 00:09:06,866 --> 00:09:08,300 Astrologist that can help us understand what we share um 215 00:09:08,300 --> 00:09:10,766 understand what we share um injustice or historians we need 216 00:09:10,766 --> 00:09:12,533 injustice or historians we need epidemiologist. We need vaccine 217 00:09:12,533 --> 00:09:16,366 epidemiologist. We need vaccine scientists but not only us but 218 00:09:16,366 --> 00:09:19,133 scientists but not only us but in we have to go back to the 219 00:09:19,133 --> 00:09:20,599 in we have to go back to the fact that a lot of these issues 220 00:09:20,599 --> 00:09:21,533 fact that a lot of these issues that have a lot of economic 221 00:09:21,533 --> 00:09:22,334 that have a lot of economic continent in them and it’s 222 00:09:22,334 --> 00:09:23,966 continent in them and it’s gonna make it has something. To 223 00:09:23,966 --> 00:09:25,499 gonna make it has something. To the table and something that 224 00:09:25,499 --> 00:09:27,967 the table and something that was quite happening in a way 225 00:09:27,967 --> 00:09:31,266 was quite happening in a way that you of covid-nineteen 226 00:09:31,266 --> 00:09:33,266 that you of covid-nineteen research uh as soon as the 227 00:09:33,266 --> 00:09:35,167 research uh as soon as the started, everybody went home 228 00:09:35,167 --> 00:09:36,967 started, everybody went home and start to you know, put them 229 00:09:36,967 --> 00:09:37,799 and start to you know, put them on the themselves on their 230 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:39,467 on the themselves on their computer and started working 231 00:09:39,467 --> 00:09:42,267 computer and started working like crazy to understand um the 232 00:09:42,267 --> 00:09:43,967 like crazy to understand um the you know what the change about 233 00:09:43,967 --> 00:09:45,334 you know what the change about the way we think about 234 00:09:45,334 --> 00:09:48,766 the way we think about economics and how to best 235 00:09:48,766 --> 00:09:51,967 economics and how to best understand behavior to the my 236 00:09:51,967 --> 00:09:54,234 understand behavior to the my etcetera there are dozens. Of 237 00:09:54,234 --> 00:09:55,801 etcetera there are dozens. Of papers on that have already 238 00:09:55,801 --> 00:09:58,900 papers on that have already been so this is uh a sign. I 239 00:09:58,900 --> 00:10:00,700 been so this is uh a sign. I think that there is a desire in 240 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:02,567 think that there is a desire in the profession to engage in the 241 00:10:02,567 --> 00:10:03,867 the profession to engage in the issue that are the most 242 00:10:03,867 --> 00:10:06,000 issue that are the most pressing and relevant for 243 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,067 pressing and relevant for society. There’s also you know 244 00:10:09,067 --> 00:10:11,200 society. There’s also you know from the words of John views, 245 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,900 from the words of John views, the idea that economists are 246 00:10:13,900 --> 00:10:14,767 the idea that economists are not critical. They don’t 247 00:10:14,767 --> 00:10:17,000 not critical. They don’t believe racism exists, for 248 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,533 believe racism exists, for example, but, in fact, for 249 00:10:19,533 --> 00:10:21,267 example, but, in fact, for example, that particular issue 250 00:10:21,267 --> 00:10:23,434 example, that particular issue where uh they’re doing the 251 00:10:23,434 --> 00:10:24,933 where uh they’re doing the common view about what they’re 252 00:10:24,933 --> 00:10:27,201 common view about what they’re gonna do is much less rich than 253 00:10:27,201 --> 00:10:30,133 gonna do is much less rich than what they call is actually, but 254 00:10:30,133 --> 00:10:32,334 what they call is actually, but one thing that I don’t like to 255 00:10:32,334 --> 00:10:34,200 one thing that I don’t like to do very much is to air out 256 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,166 do very much is to air out disagreements and complexity in 257 00:10:36,166 --> 00:10:39,201 disagreements and complexity in public so most. Quiet economics 258 00:10:39,201 --> 00:10:41,633 public so most. Quiet economics that’s that’s questions 259 00:10:41,633 --> 00:10:43,934 that’s that’s questions assumptions that really ties to 260 00:10:43,934 --> 00:10:45,800 assumptions that really ties to focus on fat gets a little bit 261 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,134 focus on fat gets a little bit down and we forget we forget 262 00:10:47,134 --> 00:10:50,600 down and we forget we forget about it. So for this reason, 263 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:51,967 about it. So for this reason, we feel that you know we 264 00:10:51,967 --> 00:10:52,966 we feel that you know we shouldn’t give up and we should 265 00:10:52,966 --> 00:10:55,533 shouldn’t give up and we should still try to talk on behalf of 266 00:10:55,533 --> 00:10:57,134 still try to talk on behalf of the profession and that’s what 267 00:10:57,134 --> 00:10:58,866 the profession and that’s what we did in this book. Uh this is 268 00:10:58,866 --> 00:11:00,533 we did in this book. Uh this is not contrary to our previous 269 00:11:00,533 --> 00:11:02,800 not contrary to our previous work. It’s not a book about our 270 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:03,800 work. It’s not a book about our own research, but it’s a book 271 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,267 own research, but it’s a book about how our reading of the 272 00:11:06,267 --> 00:11:08,567 about how our reading of the best of professional has to say 273 00:11:08,567 --> 00:11:12,400 best of professional has to say on this issue that the factors 274 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:13,834 on this issue that the factors and what I’m not going to do 275 00:11:13,834 --> 00:11:15,500 and what I’m not going to do today is to go uh you know 276 00:11:15,500 --> 00:11:17,034 today is to go uh you know Chapter by Chapter three. He 277 00:11:17,034 --> 00:11:18,233 Chapter by Chapter three. He was in the book, but instead 278 00:11:18,233 --> 00:11:20,267 was in the book, but instead I’m going to distill a few 279 00:11:20,267 --> 00:11:24,367 I’m going to distill a few lessons and how. In in our 280 00:11:24,367 --> 00:11:27,667 lessons and how. In in our heart of times. First one is 281 00:11:27,667 --> 00:11:30,167 heart of times. First one is this is the question of 282 00:11:30,167 --> 00:11:32,000 this is the question of government and so one of the 283 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,266 government and so one of the chapters of our book is 284 00:11:34,266 --> 00:11:35,200 chapters of our book is collegiate.com and it’s about 285 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,733 collegiate.com and it’s about the fact that over the last few 286 00:11:38,733 --> 00:11:40,733 the fact that over the last few decades, maybe stuck in with 287 00:11:40,733 --> 00:11:43,534 decades, maybe stuck in with evolution um and the touch of a 288 00:11:43,534 --> 00:11:46,600 evolution um and the touch of a revolution in the UK um 289 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,734 revolution in the UK um extending with lots of the anti 290 00:11:47,734 --> 00:11:51,267 extending with lots of the anti European protests in in votes 291 00:11:51,267 --> 00:11:55,034 European protests in in votes in Europe, it has been um a 292 00:11:55,034 --> 00:11:58,166 in Europe, it has been um a strong. 293 00:12:04,666 --> 00:12:07,466 als So this and example from 294 00:12:07,466 --> 00:12:08,900 als So this and example from the tipe achtzehn äh Poposing 295 00:12:08,900 --> 00:12:10,434 the tipe achtzehn äh Poposing to cip the government out of my 296 00:12:10,434 --> 00:12:11,933 to cip the government out of my Medical, which hies the Iron 297 00:12:11,933 --> 00:12:13,600 Medical, which hies the Iron your fit for those when not, 298 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,166 your fit for those when not, also well verstehen die 299 00:12:15,166 --> 00:12:16,867 also well verstehen die American so schön ins System, 300 00:12:16,867 --> 00:12:19,200 American so schön ins System, is at meditat is begonnen 301 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,234 is at meditat is begonnen Mensch Programm. Äh for äh 302 00:12:21,234 --> 00:12:23,800 Mensch Programm. Äh for äh Health in Schwanzwaldy Allerye. 303 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,733 Health in Schwanzwaldy Allerye. I sing the cov Pisces and clear 304 00:12:28,733 --> 00:12:32,000 I sing the cov Pisces and clear when we need uh and forcing a 305 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,700 when we need uh and forcing a masque mandates uh is uh asking 306 00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:35,933 masque mandates uh is uh asking people to do something they 307 00:12:35,933 --> 00:12:37,734 people to do something they don’t want to do wearing a mask 308 00:12:37,734 --> 00:12:39,933 don’t want to do wearing a mask is an external so people are 309 00:12:39,933 --> 00:12:42,167 is an external so people are going to not do enough of it 310 00:12:42,167 --> 00:12:43,800 going to not do enough of it and without the government and 311 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:44,934 and without the government and foster mandate there is not 312 00:12:44,934 --> 00:12:46,367 foster mandate there is not enough mass. We saw it very 313 00:12:46,367 --> 00:12:47,833 enough mass. We saw it very clearly in the US uh that if 314 00:12:47,833 --> 00:12:49,600 clearly in the US uh that if the government is not clear on 315 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,000 the government is not clear on what the what the are it just 316 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,800 what the what the are it just doesn’t happen, we also need 317 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,367 doesn’t happen, we also need the government. Be prepared uh 318 00:12:57,367 --> 00:12:59,667 the government. Be prepared uh and the government in your in 319 00:12:59,667 --> 00:13:02,834 and the government in your in the US uh in India everywhere 320 00:13:02,834 --> 00:13:04,700 the US uh in India everywhere spends uh uh billions of 321 00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:06,966 spends uh uh billions of dollars on uh preparing for 322 00:13:06,966 --> 00:13:10,766 dollars on uh preparing for vaccines and no nobody, but the 323 00:13:10,766 --> 00:13:12,267 vaccines and no nobody, but the government can finance uh uh an 324 00:13:12,267 --> 00:13:15,767 government can finance uh uh an like that similarly new 325 00:13:15,767 --> 00:13:17,267 like that similarly new government can finance an 326 00:13:17,267 --> 00:13:19,334 government can finance an effort uh a financial one of 327 00:13:19,334 --> 00:13:21,100 effort uh a financial one of the size of the economy fuel 328 00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:22,900 the size of the economy fuel baggage that we are seeing in 329 00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:24,266 baggage that we are seeing in all of the countries that can 330 00:13:24,266 --> 00:13:25,800 all of the countries that can afford it only a government. 331 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,266 afford it only a government. And, in fact, in new, it’s 332 00:13:28,266 --> 00:13:31,000 And, in fact, in new, it’s pretty much on the uh the 333 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,567 pretty much on the uh the community as a whole to go by 334 00:13:32,567 --> 00:13:36,399 community as a whole to go by the whole can essentially zero 335 00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:38,000 the whole can essentially zero interest rate to finance the 336 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,467 interest rate to finance the type of economic packages that 337 00:13:40,467 --> 00:13:42,867 type of economic packages that can prevent uh turning the 338 00:13:42,867 --> 00:13:45,700 can prevent uh turning the necessary temporary hold 339 00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:46,934 necessary temporary hold inactivity into a more long 340 00:13:46,934 --> 00:13:50,833 inactivity into a more long lasting session. So I think 341 00:13:50,833 --> 00:13:52,266 lasting session. So I think this is going to be a little 342 00:13:52,266 --> 00:13:53,867 this is going to be a little bit of a make or break a moment 343 00:13:53,867 --> 00:13:56,300 bit of a make or break a moment for governments uh and I think 344 00:13:56,300 --> 00:13:57,800 for governments uh and I think all of that you make or break 345 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,233 all of that you make or break moment for the for the EU, 346 00:14:00,233 --> 00:14:03,301 moment for the for the EU, which is on the one hand if 347 00:14:03,301 --> 00:14:05,767 which is on the one hand if when government succeed uh it’s 348 00:14:05,767 --> 00:14:08,333 when government succeed uh it’s it could be reposting the 349 00:14:08,333 --> 00:14:10,000 it could be reposting the legitimacy and giving citizen 350 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,534 legitimacy and giving citizen more interest in the business 351 00:14:12,534 --> 00:14:13,966 more interest in the business of citizenship and their 352 00:14:13,966 --> 00:14:15,133 of citizenship and their business of democracy and we 353 00:14:15,133 --> 00:14:17,100 business of democracy and we can we can just not it’s not 354 00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:18,966 can we can just not it’s not something we can. We can’t 355 00:14:18,966 --> 00:14:21,333 something we can. We can’t forget. Makes a difference who 356 00:14:21,333 --> 00:14:23,767 forget. Makes a difference who is in office and what they do 357 00:14:23,767 --> 00:14:26,200 is in office and what they do on the other one increases 358 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:27,534 on the other one increases where governments feel 359 00:14:27,534 --> 00:14:30,266 where governments feel miserably even ifs, which are 360 00:14:30,266 --> 00:14:31,967 miserably even ifs, which are ruled by populists and that 361 00:14:31,967 --> 00:14:35,133 ruled by populists and that baby people who have to antigo 362 00:14:35,133 --> 00:14:35,899 baby people who have to antigo graduate, It’s not going to 363 00:14:35,899 --> 00:14:37,566 graduate, It’s not going to lead to saying Oh well. Well we 364 00:14:37,566 --> 00:14:39,434 lead to saying Oh well. Well we better turn back to more 365 00:14:39,434 --> 00:14:41,134 better turn back to more sophisticated Techno card for 366 00:14:41,134 --> 00:14:43,366 sophisticated Techno card for government. it is it could turn 367 00:14:43,366 --> 00:14:45,600 government. it is it could turn into a more even more distrust 368 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,967 into a more even more distrust in about what government might 369 00:14:47,967 --> 00:14:49,833 in about what government might do, and this is something that. 370 00:14:49,833 --> 00:14:53,900 do, and this is something that. For the US, for example, The 371 00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:55,367 For the US, for example, The simple lesson very important 372 00:14:55,367 --> 00:14:58,266 simple lesson very important for this time is the idea that 373 00:14:58,266 --> 00:15:00,267 for this time is the idea that financial incentives are 374 00:15:00,267 --> 00:15:02,367 financial incentives are overrated and in particular 375 00:15:02,367 --> 00:15:05,699 overrated and in particular more than ever overrated. So 376 00:15:05,699 --> 00:15:08,766 more than ever overrated. So there is a myth of um of uh 377 00:15:08,766 --> 00:15:10,700 there is a myth of um of uh which is almost the thought of 378 00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:16,367 which is almost the thought of the the the The the cost to the 379 00:15:16,367 --> 00:15:17,700 the the the The the cost to the cornerstone of most of our 380 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:19,434 cornerstone of most of our social protection system that 381 00:15:19,434 --> 00:15:21,799 social protection system that giving people too much of 382 00:15:21,799 --> 00:15:23,466 giving people too much of financial help will make them 383 00:15:23,466 --> 00:15:27,266 financial help will make them lose and therefore. When should 384 00:15:27,266 --> 00:15:29,767 lose and therefore. When should not do too much of it or make 385 00:15:29,767 --> 00:15:32,333 not do too much of it or make it very unpleasant for people 386 00:15:32,333 --> 00:15:34,267 it very unpleasant for people who receive such help of both 387 00:15:34,267 --> 00:15:36,533 who receive such help of both and in fact, most social 388 00:15:36,533 --> 00:15:37,633 and in fact, most social protection systems suffer from 389 00:15:37,633 --> 00:15:40,701 protection systems suffer from the sort of Victorian Victorian 390 00:15:40,701 --> 00:15:42,000 the sort of Victorian Victorian hangover uh in Victorian times 391 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,433 hangover uh in Victorian times in the UK. Of course, the the 392 00:15:44,433 --> 00:15:46,299 in the UK. Of course, the the the the basically punishing the 393 00:15:46,299 --> 00:15:48,801 the the basically punishing the need for help to make it 394 00:15:48,801 --> 00:15:50,767 need for help to make it sufficiently and that people 395 00:15:50,767 --> 00:15:53,333 sufficiently and that people wouldn’t stay there. So this is 396 00:15:53,333 --> 00:15:54,834 wouldn’t stay there. So this is a myth which is very robust. It 397 00:15:54,834 --> 00:15:56,500 a myth which is very robust. It turns out that it is not 398 00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:58,700 turns out that it is not supported by data and in 399 00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:00,434 supported by data and in particular uh you can see here 400 00:16:00,434 --> 00:16:02,699 particular uh you can see here from a number of countries in 401 00:16:02,699 --> 00:16:04,401 from a number of countries in the middle and and and 402 00:16:04,401 --> 00:16:07,100 the middle and and and low-income country um under my 403 00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:09,367 low-income country um under my control trial that even money 404 00:16:09,367 --> 00:16:11,834 control trial that even money giving money to people in 405 00:16:11,834 --> 00:16:13,334 giving money to people in exchange of taking care of the 406 00:16:13,334 --> 00:16:14,733 exchange of taking care of the kids or present preventive 407 00:16:14,733 --> 00:16:17,167 kids or present preventive health, but not in exchange of 408 00:16:17,167 --> 00:16:17,967 health, but not in exchange of working so from the point of 409 00:16:17,967 --> 00:16:19,967 working so from the point of view of uh of what it’s 410 00:16:19,967 --> 00:16:20,867 view of uh of what it’s endless, reflected help and you 411 00:16:20,867 --> 00:16:23,867 endless, reflected help and you can see uh. To decree and the 412 00:16:23,867 --> 00:16:25,934 can see uh. To decree and the white, the red bar for people 413 00:16:25,934 --> 00:16:27,367 white, the red bar for people who receive the not receive the 414 00:16:27,367 --> 00:16:28,933 who receive the not receive the program, and there is simply no 415 00:16:28,933 --> 00:16:31,233 program, and there is simply no difference between the supply 416 00:16:31,233 --> 00:16:32,900 difference between the supply so it is simply not true that 417 00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:34,467 so it is simply not true that giving people money makes them 418 00:16:34,467 --> 00:16:35,433 giving people money makes them lazy in the sense that they’re 419 00:16:35,433 --> 00:16:38,400 lazy in the sense that they’re that they’re refused to to work 420 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,700 that they’re refused to to work and yet this idea so there are 421 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:42,533 and yet this idea so there are similar from the US. there is 422 00:16:42,533 --> 00:16:44,000 similar from the US. there is even stronger evidence from the 423 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,600 even stronger evidence from the US in fact the first ever loud 424 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:47,500 US in fact the first ever loud on the most controlled trial 425 00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:48,767 on the most controlled trial was a test of the negative 426 00:16:48,767 --> 00:16:50,334 was a test of the negative income tax experiment. We not 427 00:16:50,334 --> 00:16:52,600 income tax experiment. We not only give money to people. A 428 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,699 only give money to people. A texted away and making uh uh uh 429 00:16:55,699 --> 00:16:58,133 texted away and making uh uh uh a financially attractive 430 00:16:58,133 --> 00:16:59,967 a financially attractive position and there from very 431 00:16:59,967 --> 00:17:03,200 position and there from very little effect on the supply. So 432 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:04,000 little effect on the supply. So so I think this is something 433 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,366 so I think this is something that all economists uh no 434 00:17:06,366 --> 00:17:08,000 that all economists uh no artist to have uh or economist 435 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,199 artist to have uh or economist who studied by now and yet uh 436 00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:15,200 who studied by now and yet uh you can uh in the discussion 437 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:16,734 you can uh in the discussion around uh financial help for 438 00:17:16,734 --> 00:17:19,799 around uh financial help for people have by the um lock down 439 00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:20,500 people have by the um lock down the financial impact of the 440 00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:22,767 the financial impact of the doctor. There has been a. It 441 00:17:22,767 --> 00:17:25,434 doctor. There has been a. It always comes back that is it 442 00:17:25,434 --> 00:17:27,933 always comes back that is it going to make people lazy uh if 443 00:17:27,933 --> 00:17:29,167 going to make people lazy uh if we give them money or they’re 444 00:17:29,167 --> 00:17:30,800 we give them money or they’re going to stay home, you can see 445 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,699 going to stay home, you can see uh Chuck Grassley in the US, 446 00:17:32,699 --> 00:17:34,767 uh Chuck Grassley in the US, saying that the $600 weekly 447 00:17:34,767 --> 00:17:36,667 saying that the $600 weekly payment just go to people from 448 00:17:36,667 --> 00:17:38,201 payment just go to people from returning to work after taking 449 00:17:38,201 --> 00:17:40,400 returning to work after taking a new job dealing the recovery 450 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,767 a new job dealing the recovery and there, you can see the the 451 00:17:42,767 --> 00:17:45,533 and there, you can see the the the again the words to Jonah 452 00:17:45,533 --> 00:17:46,966 the again the words to Jonah this time not liking what the 453 00:17:46,966 --> 00:17:49,299 this time not liking what the economists have to say so 454 00:17:49,299 --> 00:17:52,000 economists have to say so writing uh um an an opinion 455 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,133 writing uh um an an opinion piece, but not it’s it’s it’s 456 00:17:53,133 --> 00:17:55,801 piece, but not it’s it’s it’s from the page, saying 457 00:17:55,801 --> 00:17:56,967 from the page, saying economists common sense if you 458 00:17:56,967 --> 00:17:59,534 economists common sense if you baby. What will work? that’s 459 00:17:59,534 --> 00:18:02,834 baby. What will work? that’s not a that’s a stated as an as 460 00:18:02,834 --> 00:18:06,634 not a that’s a stated as an as an e, except that it seems and 461 00:18:06,634 --> 00:18:08,333 an e, except that it seems and what they’re referring to is 462 00:18:08,333 --> 00:18:10,766 what they’re referring to is the people that was put out by 463 00:18:10,766 --> 00:18:13,266 the people that was put out by about 12 year professor of 464 00:18:13,266 --> 00:18:15,367 about 12 year professor of economics of every sort label 465 00:18:15,367 --> 00:18:18,767 economics of every sort label economy looking at the impact 466 00:18:18,767 --> 00:18:21,400 economy looking at the impact of the $600 weekly payments to 467 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,667 of the $600 weekly payments to the impact of the six of the 468 00:18:22,667 --> 00:18:25,934 the impact of the six of the payment on the supply and what 469 00:18:25,934 --> 00:18:28,666 payment on the supply and what these people finds um is uh 470 00:18:28,666 --> 00:18:29,967 these people finds um is uh summarized in this case, you 471 00:18:29,967 --> 00:18:31,600 summarized in this case, you can see the dotted line is the 472 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,167 can see the dotted line is the stock of the. Of the 600 weekly 473 00:18:36,167 --> 00:18:38,766 stock of the. Of the 600 weekly payments and the guidelines of 474 00:18:38,766 --> 00:18:41,900 payments and the guidelines of the the the color lines of the 475 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,300 the the the color lines of the to placement rates that you’re 476 00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:45,300 to placement rates that you’re seeing in various tips and you 477 00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:46,934 seeing in various tips and you can see that. Indeed, it is the 478 00:18:46,934 --> 00:18:48,467 can see that. Indeed, it is the case that uh in places that 479 00:18:48,467 --> 00:18:50,000 case that uh in places that have had larger of place where 480 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,699 have had larger of place where people work less, but that full 481 00:18:53,699 --> 00:18:54,800 people work less, but that full happened before the weekly 482 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,400 happened before the weekly payment we’re put in place and 483 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,134 payment we’re put in place and you see no difference between 484 00:18:59,134 --> 00:19:01,333 you see no difference between uh the labor of supply the week 485 00:19:01,333 --> 00:19:02,867 uh the labor of supply the week before and the week after and 486 00:19:02,867 --> 00:19:05,767 before and the week after and then the time completely across 487 00:19:05,767 --> 00:19:07,367 then the time completely across all of the states. so what the 488 00:19:07,367 --> 00:19:10,799 all of the states. so what the economists do show please. Is 489 00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:13,600 economists do show please. Is that, in fact, once more, we 490 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,467 that, in fact, once more, we see no evidence of the fact 491 00:19:15,467 --> 00:19:17,334 see no evidence of the fact that paying people while they 492 00:19:17,334 --> 00:19:18,767 that paying people while they are unable to walk, make them 493 00:19:18,767 --> 00:19:20,267 are unable to walk, make them to go back to work, they don’t 494 00:19:20,267 --> 00:19:21,833 to go back to work, they don’t they’re not working because 495 00:19:21,833 --> 00:19:22,833 they’re not working because they cannot work. And that’s 496 00:19:22,833 --> 00:19:26,866 they cannot work. And that’s why the the that’s why the uh 497 00:19:26,866 --> 00:19:27,800 why the the that’s why the uh that’s why you see a lot of 498 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,634 that’s why you see a lot of unemployment and yet the 499 00:19:29,634 --> 00:19:32,134 unemployment and yet the conclusion is not uh oh we 500 00:19:32,134 --> 00:19:33,834 conclusion is not uh oh we should better have a view of 501 00:19:33,834 --> 00:19:35,633 should better have a view of theory uh the conclusion is 502 00:19:35,633 --> 00:19:39,400 theory uh the conclusion is that the facts must be wrong. 503 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:40,900 that the facts must be wrong. And to the consequences is 504 00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:42,733 And to the consequences is summarized in this other 505 00:19:42,733 --> 00:19:44,233 summarized in this other headline by pro recruitment and 506 00:19:44,233 --> 00:19:45,901 headline by pro recruitment and one good response to 507 00:19:45,901 --> 00:19:47,666 one good response to covid-nineteen. That’s the uh 508 00:19:47,666 --> 00:19:52,633 covid-nineteen. That’s the uh uh the 600 uh has acted uh 509 00:19:52,633 --> 00:19:53,933 uh the 600 uh has acted uh currently the eight to the 510 00:19:53,933 --> 00:19:56,133 currently the eight to the employee is gone. Uh it’s been 511 00:19:56,133 --> 00:19:58,734 employee is gone. Uh it’s been gone for a while, and there is 512 00:19:58,734 --> 00:20:00,967 gone for a while, and there is no sign that it’s going to come 513 00:20:00,967 --> 00:20:03,967 no sign that it’s going to come back. 514 00:20:04,401 --> 00:20:07,000 The simple is that the economy 515 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,967 The simple is that the economy is uh uh um sticky and probably 516 00:20:09,967 --> 00:20:11,699 is uh uh um sticky and probably even sticky up-to-date and we 517 00:20:11,699 --> 00:20:12,999 even sticky up-to-date and we didn’t think so what do I mean 518 00:20:12,999 --> 00:20:16,367 didn’t think so what do I mean by that well in many cases in 519 00:20:16,367 --> 00:20:18,634 by that well in many cases in Ingram modern, we assumed that 520 00:20:18,634 --> 00:20:20,433 Ingram modern, we assumed that uh when people lose their job, 521 00:20:20,433 --> 00:20:23,034 uh when people lose their job, they can easily move to another 522 00:20:23,034 --> 00:20:24,167 they can easily move to another location where they are more. 523 00:20:24,167 --> 00:20:26,000 location where they are more. It’s more activity or they can 524 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,634 It’s more activity or they can change sector and find another 525 00:20:28,634 --> 00:20:31,634 change sector and find another find another job in another 526 00:20:31,634 --> 00:20:33,733 find another job in another sector um so if. Displaced 527 00:20:33,733 --> 00:20:34,434 sector um so if. Displaced because you were you know 528 00:20:34,434 --> 00:20:36,400 because you were you know walking in the street and the 529 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,433 walking in the street and the friends you can always move to 530 00:20:38,433 --> 00:20:41,133 friends you can always move to barriers and and and be become 531 00:20:41,133 --> 00:20:44,500 barriers and and and be become a security and it’s long been 532 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:46,300 a security and it’s long been known that the European are not 533 00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:49,366 known that the European are not as mobile. so people you know 534 00:20:49,366 --> 00:20:50,367 as mobile. so people you know French people like their 535 00:20:50,367 --> 00:20:52,267 French people like their hometown and that they’re not 536 00:20:52,267 --> 00:20:54,300 hometown and that they’re not despite the fact that the the 537 00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:56,700 despite the fact that the the balls are largely open. People, 538 00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:57,900 balls are largely open. People, for example, didn’t move from 539 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:00,867 for example, didn’t move from Spain and Spain was hit by uh 540 00:21:00,867 --> 00:21:02,999 Spain and Spain was hit by uh unemployment and just stay stay 541 00:21:02,999 --> 00:21:05,333 unemployment and just stay stay aware uh one thing that. Known 542 00:21:05,333 --> 00:21:07,100 aware uh one thing that. Known as that, it is too as well in 543 00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:09,166 as that, it is too as well in the US that the rate of 544 00:21:09,166 --> 00:21:11,866 the US that the rate of geographic mobility in the US 545 00:21:11,866 --> 00:21:13,066 geographic mobility in the US has become much lower than it 546 00:21:13,066 --> 00:21:15,766 has become much lower than it used to be uh so you can see a 547 00:21:15,766 --> 00:21:18,299 used to be uh so you can see a huge decline in uh in uh 548 00:21:18,299 --> 00:21:21,266 huge decline in uh in uh mobility between the 80s and 549 00:21:21,266 --> 00:21:24,633 mobility between the 80s and today uh um in in the 80s, you 550 00:21:24,633 --> 00:21:28,799 today uh um in in the 80s, you have uh 6.4% moving from a so 551 00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:30,200 have uh 6.4% moving from a so it’s not the 80s. It’s 552 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,000 it’s not the 80s. It’s forty-eight. There’s the table 553 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,233 forty-eight. There’s the table here. That’s what they said and 554 00:21:33,233 --> 00:21:34,900 here. That’s what they said and they stay in the day between 555 00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:37,566 they stay in the day between 1948 and nine and 2016 is 556 00:21:37,566 --> 00:21:39,433 1948 and nine and 2016 is almost having an in-depth 557 00:21:39,433 --> 00:21:42,300 almost having an in-depth mobility from state to state. 558 00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:43,633 mobility from state to state. Precisely the all the years 559 00:21:43,633 --> 00:21:46,466 Precisely the all the years where there was um most of 560 00:21:46,466 --> 00:21:48,800 where there was um most of these changes happen in 561 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,334 these changes happen in starting from the 90s, which is 562 00:21:50,334 --> 00:21:51,667 starting from the 90s, which is precisely when you start to 563 00:21:51,667 --> 00:21:54,267 precisely when you start to have a lot of geographically a 564 00:21:54,267 --> 00:21:55,134 have a lot of geographically a different to the tracks so 565 00:21:55,134 --> 00:21:56,867 different to the tracks so where it would have been very 566 00:21:56,867 --> 00:21:59,733 where it would have been very beneficial for people to move 567 00:21:59,733 --> 00:22:02,200 beneficial for people to move uh the response has been a 568 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:02,867 uh the response has been a complete disaster for migraines 569 00:22:02,867 --> 00:22:04,733 complete disaster for migraines of course from mobility within 570 00:22:04,733 --> 00:22:06,767 of course from mobility within the European Union, even in the 571 00:22:06,767 --> 00:22:09,400 the European Union, even in the guts to complete, insert uh and 572 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,401 guts to complete, insert uh and even now it’s not we uh on uh. 573 00:22:13,401 --> 00:22:17,267 even now it’s not we uh on uh. Try to protect themselves from 574 00:22:17,267 --> 00:22:21,767 Try to protect themselves from infected um more infected but 575 00:22:21,767 --> 00:22:27,699 infected um more infected but uh it’s been particularly uh um 576 00:22:27,699 --> 00:22:29,367 uh it’s been particularly uh um disaster was even for in 577 00:22:29,367 --> 00:22:31,200 disaster was even for in internal migraine and in the 578 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,667 internal migraine and in the cells. so this photo is from 579 00:22:32,667 --> 00:22:34,800 cells. so this photo is from India. uh when India post a 580 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,699 India. uh when India post a locked down a lot of people 581 00:22:37,699 --> 00:22:38,900 locked down a lot of people suddenly found themselves 582 00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:40,200 suddenly found themselves without a place to stay because 583 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,800 without a place to stay because that place to stay with their 584 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,300 that place to stay with their place of employment and without 585 00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:45,733 place of employment and without any help. It’s all to help was 586 00:22:45,733 --> 00:22:47,200 any help. It’s all to help was tied to your community of 587 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,533 tied to your community of poverty and so it’s hard to go 588 00:22:49,533 --> 00:22:51,934 poverty and so it’s hard to go back home and the train stops 589 00:22:51,934 --> 00:22:53,400 back home and the train stops so many try to go home by the 590 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,033 so many try to go home by the last train in this like usually 591 00:22:55,033 --> 00:22:57,300 last train in this like usually crowded settings and then by 592 00:22:57,300 --> 00:22:58,699 crowded settings and then by food and people could set in 593 00:22:58,699 --> 00:23:00,400 food and people could set in you know could be kind of 594 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,800 you know could be kind of placed in camps and uh it’s 595 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,767 placed in camps and uh it’s been a complete nightmare, 596 00:23:05,767 --> 00:23:08,400 been a complete nightmare, which means that even as the 597 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:09,867 which means that even as the economy reopened, people are 598 00:23:09,867 --> 00:23:12,234 economy reopened, people are going to be very reluctant to 599 00:23:12,234 --> 00:23:13,600 going to be very reluctant to move, which means that 600 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,801 move, which means that something that we already are 601 00:23:15,801 --> 00:23:17,900 something that we already are not a very fluid where system 602 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:22,633 not a very fluid where system of uh kind of uh people. 603 00:23:59,167 --> 00:24:01,933 Because the is killing white 604 00:24:01,933 --> 00:24:02,867 Because the is killing white people are much more black 605 00:24:02,867 --> 00:24:04,633 people are much more black people are much more than white 606 00:24:04,633 --> 00:24:08,301 people are much more than white people are all the mortality of 607 00:24:08,301 --> 00:24:09,933 people are all the mortality of the mortality of black Latin 608 00:24:09,933 --> 00:24:11,834 the mortality of black Latin and Native American is three 609 00:24:11,834 --> 00:24:13,801 and Native American is three times higher than it is for a 610 00:24:13,801 --> 00:24:17,099 times higher than it is for a mom or Latino uh whites, And of 611 00:24:17,099 --> 00:24:19,533 mom or Latino uh whites, And of course, there was the the the 612 00:24:19,533 --> 00:24:22,700 course, there was the the the the deaths of uh George Floyd 613 00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:24,701 the deaths of uh George Floyd and the racial justice and 614 00:24:24,701 --> 00:24:25,834 and the racial justice and protested forward. and of 615 00:24:25,834 --> 00:24:26,999 protested forward. and of course we are in the middle of 616 00:24:26,999 --> 00:24:31,334 course we are in the middle of a new wave of truth. um so in. 617 00:24:31,334 --> 00:24:32,700 a new wave of truth. um so in. All that one can become very 618 00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:34,300 All that one can become very despondent and feel well, you 619 00:24:34,300 --> 00:24:36,800 despondent and feel well, you know this is uh this platforms 620 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,467 know this is uh this platforms are very deeply held and some 621 00:24:39,467 --> 00:24:42,533 are very deeply held and some people are just uh just three. 622 00:24:42,533 --> 00:24:44,000 people are just uh just three. There’s nothing we can do about 623 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,634 There’s nothing we can do about it and they tend to become a 624 00:24:45,634 --> 00:24:49,934 it and they tend to become a policeman uh and no. And this 625 00:24:49,934 --> 00:24:51,234 policeman uh and no. And this is something that we want to 626 00:24:51,234 --> 00:24:53,967 is something that we want to push against because um one 627 00:24:53,967 --> 00:24:56,167 push against because um one thing that we’ve learned from a 628 00:24:56,167 --> 00:24:57,134 thing that we’ve learned from a psychology and economist over 629 00:24:57,134 --> 00:25:00,933 psychology and economist over the last few years is that the 630 00:25:00,933 --> 00:25:03,334 the last few years is that the preferences are not at all uh 631 00:25:03,334 --> 00:25:04,933 preferences are not at all uh stable that we don’t. there’s 632 00:25:04,933 --> 00:25:06,400 stable that we don’t. there’s no such thing as like a deeply 633 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,801 no such thing as like a deeply held preferences where some 634 00:25:08,801 --> 00:25:10,233 held preferences where some people prefer people of their 635 00:25:10,233 --> 00:25:12,767 people prefer people of their own race or not instead I 636 00:25:12,767 --> 00:25:14,333 own race or not instead I performances and even the sense 637 00:25:14,333 --> 00:25:17,734 performances and even the sense of identity is totally affected 638 00:25:17,734 --> 00:25:19,934 of identity is totally affected by your particular experience 639 00:25:19,934 --> 00:25:22,667 by your particular experience and this is A. Very stuck 640 00:25:22,667 --> 00:25:24,000 and this is A. Very stuck experiment of that in 641 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,866 experiment of that in Switzerland not on racism but 642 00:25:26,866 --> 00:25:29,200 Switzerland not on racism but on um the sense of social 643 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,767 on um the sense of social status so they invite banker to 644 00:25:31,767 --> 00:25:34,201 status so they invite banker to the lab and I asked them to 645 00:25:34,201 --> 00:25:36,800 the lab and I asked them to record these are the weekend or 646 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,866 record these are the weekend or uh success of all the last um 647 00:25:39,866 --> 00:25:42,299 uh success of all the last um walk days and then after that, 648 00:25:42,299 --> 00:25:43,967 walk days and then after that, they asked them where they felt 649 00:25:43,967 --> 00:25:47,867 they asked them where they felt that for success uh social 650 00:25:47,867 --> 00:25:49,067 that for success uh social status is primarily determined 651 00:25:49,067 --> 00:25:50,900 status is primarily determined by by financial success and 652 00:25:50,900 --> 00:25:53,367 by by financial success and those who are asked to. The 653 00:25:53,367 --> 00:25:54,833 those who are asked to. The financial identity, or more 654 00:25:54,833 --> 00:25:56,200 financial identity, or more likely to think that those who 655 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,967 likely to think that those who are under control hope then 656 00:25:58,967 --> 00:26:01,667 are under control hope then what they did is to ask them to 657 00:26:01,667 --> 00:26:04,634 what they did is to ask them to uh uh uh flip the coin many 658 00:26:04,634 --> 00:26:05,867 uh uh uh flip the coin many times and then they they they 659 00:26:05,867 --> 00:26:08,334 times and then they they they were paid as a function of 660 00:26:08,334 --> 00:26:09,900 were paid as a function of successful conflicts. No no one 661 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,200 successful conflicts. No no one is watching them. so, of course 662 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:13,900 is watching them. so, of course they should uh they have all of 663 00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:16,167 they should uh they have all of the incentive to cheat if they 664 00:26:16,167 --> 00:26:17,966 the incentive to cheat if they don’t cheat they should they 665 00:26:17,966 --> 00:26:20,200 don’t cheat they should they should have about 50% success, 666 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,166 should have about 50% success, not more and in fact that. 667 00:26:52,234 --> 00:26:56,201 Deeply affected by uh who we 668 00:26:56,201 --> 00:26:57,034 Deeply affected by uh who we encounter whether we have 669 00:26:57,034 --> 00:26:58,734 encounter whether we have chances to collaborate with 670 00:26:58,734 --> 00:26:59,499 chances to collaborate with people who are different, so 671 00:26:59,499 --> 00:27:01,900 people who are different, so these are things that can 672 00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:03,399 these are things that can affect our behavior and 673 00:27:03,399 --> 00:27:05,200 affect our behavior and performances and on which we 674 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,800 performances and on which we can work. The last lesson is uh 675 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,234 can work. The last lesson is uh the fundamental role of dignity 676 00:27:12,234 --> 00:27:16,367 the fundamental role of dignity and um this is where maybe the 677 00:27:16,367 --> 00:27:19,266 and um this is where maybe the hopeful conclusion uh confident 678 00:27:19,266 --> 00:27:20,666 hopeful conclusion uh confident but it’s start with something 679 00:27:20,666 --> 00:27:24,234 but it’s start with something not so which is even before. 680 00:27:24,234 --> 00:27:27,133 not so which is even before. The crisis uh the US was in the 681 00:27:27,133 --> 00:27:29,300 The crisis uh the US was in the middle of another kind of 682 00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:30,933 middle of another kind of condemning which is uh upon the 683 00:27:30,933 --> 00:27:34,667 condemning which is uh upon the being of despair. Uh this is um 684 00:27:34,667 --> 00:27:38,699 being of despair. Uh this is um from and showing the ways of uh 685 00:27:38,699 --> 00:27:42,400 from and showing the ways of uh death coming from suicide 686 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,234 death coming from suicide opioid over those gunshots that 687 00:27:44,234 --> 00:27:47,900 opioid over those gunshots that kind of things uh between 2000 688 00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:50,733 kind of things uh between 2000 uh. 2002. 2002014 and what you 689 00:27:50,733 --> 00:27:53,399 uh. 2002. 2002014 and what you find is this huge increase in 690 00:27:53,399 --> 00:27:56,267 find is this huge increase in in both of these things. In all 691 00:27:56,267 --> 00:27:59,000 in both of these things. In all of these things uh everywhere 692 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:04,000 of these things uh everywhere in the US um that in the in the 693 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:09,866 in the US um that in the in the center of the US and this meant 694 00:28:09,866 --> 00:28:12,400 center of the US and this meant that um before nineteen the 695 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:17,333 that um before nineteen the years uh eighteen twenty where 696 00:28:17,333 --> 00:28:19,834 years uh eighteen twenty where the last year before after the 697 00:28:19,834 --> 00:28:22,700 the last year before after the the flu pandemic that we see an 698 00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:25,467 the flu pandemic that we see an increase in the mortality uh of 699 00:28:25,467 --> 00:28:27,133 increase in the mortality uh of uh middle-aged people and a 700 00:28:27,133 --> 00:28:32,133 uh middle-aged people and a decrease in life expectancy. 701 00:29:02,899 --> 00:29:06,166 Alors A protection system as we 702 00:29:06,166 --> 00:29:08,267 Alors A protection system as we were discussing before it is 703 00:29:08,267 --> 00:29:09,800 were discussing before it is not one that give them back the 704 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,234 not one that give them back the dignity. it once that make you 705 00:29:12,234 --> 00:29:14,766 dignity. it once that make you pay for uh needing to want 706 00:29:14,766 --> 00:29:16,366 pay for uh needing to want help. and therefore, it’s one 707 00:29:16,366 --> 00:29:19,734 help. and therefore, it’s one that terrifies uh be in advance 708 00:29:19,734 --> 00:29:21,567 that terrifies uh be in advance of the idea that oh, I should 709 00:29:21,567 --> 00:29:22,733 of the idea that oh, I should really resist changes because 710 00:29:22,733 --> 00:29:25,633 really resist changes because what would happen if if I 711 00:29:25,633 --> 00:29:27,867 what would happen if if I needed help 1 day, I would be I 712 00:29:27,867 --> 00:29:29,200 needed help 1 day, I would be I would lose all of the self 713 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,866 would lose all of the self esteem that I need in social 714 00:29:30,866 --> 00:29:32,133 esteem that I need in social stages, so I think the key 715 00:29:32,133 --> 00:29:35,134 stages, so I think the key thing that we need to. On in 716 00:29:35,134 --> 00:29:37,499 thing that we need to. On in order to address the issue of 717 00:29:37,499 --> 00:29:39,233 order to address the issue of racism in order to address the 718 00:29:39,233 --> 00:29:42,700 racism in order to address the issue of this um mistrust in 719 00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:45,767 issue of this um mistrust in elites is the question of uh uh 720 00:29:45,767 --> 00:29:47,200 elites is the question of uh uh dignity in the social 721 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,399 dignity in the social protection system and put back 722 00:29:48,399 --> 00:29:50,000 protection system and put back dignity at the center of the 723 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,533 dignity at the center of the social protection system. And 724 00:29:51,533 --> 00:29:54,833 social protection system. And that’s why the pandemic does 725 00:29:54,833 --> 00:29:57,799 that’s why the pandemic does help because um one of the the 726 00:29:57,799 --> 00:30:01,266 help because um one of the the reason why the social 727 00:30:01,266 --> 00:30:05,299 reason why the social protection system is so uh not. 728 00:30:05,299 --> 00:30:06,167 protection system is so uh not. Friendly it’s because even 729 00:30:06,167 --> 00:30:07,934 Friendly it’s because even though people feel themselves 730 00:30:07,934 --> 00:30:10,200 though people feel themselves that they are upstanding 731 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,333 that they are upstanding citizen that tend to be very 732 00:30:13,333 --> 00:30:14,200 citizen that tend to be very suspicious of the reaction of 733 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,600 suspicious of the reaction of other people. So in our survey 734 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,233 other people. So in our survey we asked half of the people on 735 00:30:18,233 --> 00:30:20,767 we asked half of the people on the reelected suppose there was 736 00:30:20,767 --> 00:30:22,466 the reelected suppose there was a universal basic income of 737 00:30:22,466 --> 00:30:26,167 a universal basic income of $30000 a year. Would you stop 738 00:30:26,167 --> 00:30:27,133 $30000 a year. Would you stop working and you can see that 739 00:30:27,133 --> 00:30:28,734 working and you can see that most of them say no, I would 740 00:30:28,734 --> 00:30:31,533 most of them say no, I would not stop walking uh only 12000 741 00:30:31,533 --> 00:30:32,467 not stop walking uh only 12000 people said they would stop 742 00:30:32,467 --> 00:30:35,766 people said they would stop working or walk less, but. Half 743 00:30:35,766 --> 00:30:37,233 working or walk less, but. Half of the people instead, we ask 744 00:30:37,233 --> 00:30:38,334 of the people instead, we ask them what do you think other 745 00:30:38,334 --> 00:30:39,834 them what do you think other people would do and they’re 746 00:30:39,834 --> 00:30:40,800 people would do and they’re half of the people said that 747 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,201 half of the people said that they would the other people 748 00:30:42,201 --> 00:30:43,967 they would the other people would stop walking most other 749 00:30:43,967 --> 00:30:46,167 would stop walking most other people would stop working so 750 00:30:46,167 --> 00:30:48,199 people would stop working so most people think that they 751 00:30:48,199 --> 00:30:50,201 most people think that they themselves most people have the 752 00:30:50,201 --> 00:30:50,967 themselves most people have the perception of themselves. We do 753 00:30:50,967 --> 00:30:53,166 perception of themselves. We do know that in reality people are 754 00:30:53,166 --> 00:30:55,767 know that in reality people are here and uh most people think 755 00:30:55,767 --> 00:30:57,234 here and uh most people think about themselves that they they 756 00:30:57,234 --> 00:30:58,867 about themselves that they they they. they are not responding 757 00:30:58,867 --> 00:31:01,267 they. they are not responding to the ability of health 758 00:31:01,267 --> 00:31:04,133 to the ability of health insurance or or a basic income, 759 00:31:04,133 --> 00:31:05,633 insurance or or a basic income, but I think other people are 760 00:31:05,633 --> 00:31:07,866 but I think other people are and that makes them very very 761 00:31:07,866 --> 00:31:09,733 and that makes them very very skeptical of increasing the. 762 00:31:09,733 --> 00:31:12,300 skeptical of increasing the. It’s of this program, but what 763 00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:13,733 It’s of this program, but what happened with the pandemic that 764 00:31:13,733 --> 00:31:16,333 happened with the pandemic that sadly everybody needs help and 765 00:31:16,333 --> 00:31:18,900 sadly everybody needs help and for reason that was clearly not 766 00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:21,833 for reason that was clearly not of the making and in Europe, in 767 00:31:21,833 --> 00:31:23,234 of the making and in Europe, in particular, I think the 768 00:31:23,234 --> 00:31:25,300 particular, I think the response was fast and the 769 00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:27,334 response was fast and the response was very dignity. 770 00:31:27,334 --> 00:31:29,133 response was very dignity. preserving uh with the idea of 771 00:31:29,133 --> 00:31:30,800 preserving uh with the idea of keeping people in their jobs 772 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,234 keeping people in their jobs and just paying funds to 773 00:31:32,234 --> 00:31:33,866 and just paying funds to continue paying them was it 774 00:31:33,866 --> 00:31:35,267 continue paying them was it something that was at the same 775 00:31:35,267 --> 00:31:37,366 something that was at the same time was seamless and therefore 776 00:31:37,366 --> 00:31:38,867 time was seamless and therefore proficient but also dignity 777 00:31:38,867 --> 00:31:39,700 proficient but also dignity preserving so you didn’t have 778 00:31:39,700 --> 00:31:41,567 preserving so you didn’t have to become an employee you just 779 00:31:41,567 --> 00:31:42,767 to become an employee you just you know you stayed in your 780 00:31:42,767 --> 00:31:46,500 you know you stayed in your job. It’s not your fault and. 781 00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:47,867 job. It’s not your fault and. Many people benefited from that 782 00:31:47,867 --> 00:31:49,467 Many people benefited from that and I think maybe the hope is 783 00:31:49,467 --> 00:31:50,767 and I think maybe the hope is that many people would have 784 00:31:50,767 --> 00:31:54,734 that many people would have seen the value of such a such a 785 00:31:54,734 --> 00:31:55,967 seen the value of such a such a good production system, which 786 00:31:55,967 --> 00:31:58,399 good production system, which is really place. It’s all of 787 00:31:58,399 --> 00:31:59,134 is really place. It’s all of which is helping people when 788 00:31:59,134 --> 00:32:00,834 which is helping people when they’re faces. They are not no 789 00:32:00,834 --> 00:32:02,934 they’re faces. They are not no fault of their own. and so the 790 00:32:02,934 --> 00:32:06,800 fault of their own. and so the hope is that this gives us an 791 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,666 hope is that this gives us an opportunity and the willingness 792 00:32:08,666 --> 00:32:10,333 opportunity and the willingness to rethink our social 793 00:32:10,333 --> 00:32:11,167 to rethink our social protection, putting dignity at 794 00:32:11,167 --> 00:32:12,767 protection, putting dignity at the center and if that’s the 795 00:32:12,767 --> 00:32:13,667 the center and if that’s the case, then that would 796 00:32:13,667 --> 00:32:14,767 case, then that would definitely be a huge silver 797 00:32:14,767 --> 00:32:20,201 definitely be a huge silver line. Let me. An open question. 798 00:32:20,201 --> 00:32:21,900 line. Let me. An open question. Thank you. Thank you very much 799 00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:23,600 Thank you. Thank you very much uh for this uh two to four in 800 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,200 uh for this uh two to four in this very comprehensive and um 801 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,000 this very comprehensive and um uh inspiring speech. I mean 802 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,299 uh inspiring speech. I mean there’s many many issues to to 803 00:32:32,299 --> 00:32:33,967 there’s many many issues to to dwell on and I definitely want 804 00:32:33,967 --> 00:32:36,234 dwell on and I definitely want to mention also to our online 805 00:32:36,234 --> 00:32:37,767 to mention also to our online audience that you can please go 806 00:32:37,767 --> 00:32:40,767 audience that you can please go on slide um and type in the 807 00:32:40,767 --> 00:32:44,167 on slide um and type in the #twenty PM twenty and ask your 808 00:32:44,167 --> 00:32:45,034 #twenty PM twenty and ask your questions. I’d be delighted to 809 00:32:45,034 --> 00:32:46,167 questions. I’d be delighted to answer some of those questions 810 00:32:46,167 --> 00:32:50,666 answer some of those questions to ask but before. 811 00:33:19,266 --> 00:33:21,234 Um I guess my question to you 812 00:33:21,234 --> 00:33:24,567 Um I guess my question to you is really uh they’re um and to 813 00:33:24,567 --> 00:33:26,699 is really uh they’re um and to the police and the racism 814 00:33:26,699 --> 00:33:27,333 the police and the racism question right and my question 815 00:33:27,333 --> 00:33:30,000 question right and my question I guess to you is to what 816 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,866 I guess to you is to what extent um do you see this um uh 817 00:33:34,866 --> 00:33:37,467 extent um do you see this um uh let’s say a strange kind of um 818 00:33:37,467 --> 00:33:39,200 let’s say a strange kind of um developments in economics 819 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,167 developments in economics related to the dominance of 820 00:33:41,167 --> 00:33:43,467 related to the dominance of theory I mean uh in in our 821 00:33:43,467 --> 00:33:45,933 theory I mean uh in in our profession, I mean um Journal 822 00:33:45,933 --> 00:33:47,534 profession, I mean um Journal of political economy has a 823 00:33:47,534 --> 00:33:49,633 of political economy has a tendency to uh to spend a lot 824 00:33:49,633 --> 00:33:51,600 tendency to uh to spend a lot of trust and faith. I have a 825 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,733 of trust and faith. I have a lot of trust and faith in. In 826 00:33:54,733 --> 00:33:57,967 lot of trust and faith in. In Siri and and macros, and in all 827 00:33:57,967 --> 00:34:00,900 Siri and and macros, and in all kinds of how it all himself as 828 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:04,266 kinds of how it all himself as a macros guy, um I mean there’s 829 00:34:04,266 --> 00:34:06,767 a macros guy, um I mean there’s so many people that um 830 00:34:06,767 --> 00:34:09,299 so many people that um economist that are raised as 831 00:34:09,299 --> 00:34:11,400 economist that are raised as economist being taught models. 832 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,834 economist being taught models. um where a little bit of common 833 00:34:13,834 --> 00:34:15,167 um where a little bit of common sense tells you well, these 834 00:34:15,167 --> 00:34:17,334 sense tells you well, these models are actually very 835 00:34:17,334 --> 00:34:21,367 models are actually very unrealistic um represent agent 836 00:34:21,367 --> 00:34:23,234 unrealistic um represent agent utilities only derived from my 837 00:34:23,234 --> 00:34:25,434 utilities only derived from my own consumption, not from the 838 00:34:25,434 --> 00:34:26,834 own consumption, not from the utility of others and so on and 839 00:34:26,834 --> 00:34:29,700 utility of others and so on and so forth. So, so is it really 840 00:34:29,700 --> 00:34:34,333 so forth. So, so is it really that this scenery people um uh 841 00:34:34,333 --> 00:34:36,733 that this scenery people um uh come to uh uh shape um the 842 00:34:36,733 --> 00:34:38,367 come to uh uh shape um the economics profession perhaps in 843 00:34:38,367 --> 00:34:39,967 economics profession perhaps in the wrong direction, but what 844 00:34:39,967 --> 00:34:41,333 the wrong direction, but what you represent and what you are 845 00:34:41,333 --> 00:34:43,400 you represent and what you are to discuss and what you show, I 846 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,301 to discuss and what you show, I mean, it’s a very I have to say 847 00:34:45,301 --> 00:34:46,600 mean, it’s a very I have to say it’s almost not economics. I 848 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:47,767 it’s almost not economics. I would say it’s social sciences 849 00:34:47,767 --> 00:34:49,367 would say it’s social sciences and it’s empirical social 850 00:34:49,367 --> 00:34:51,301 and it’s empirical social sciences. I mean it’s basically 851 00:34:51,301 --> 00:34:52,733 sciences. I mean it’s basically data-driven imperial social 852 00:34:52,733 --> 00:34:54,400 data-driven imperial social sciences, so isn’t it is 853 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,734 sciences, so isn’t it is perhaps the paradigm uh uh 854 00:34:56,734 --> 00:34:58,600 perhaps the paradigm uh uh paradigm change that is needed 855 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,267 paradigm change that is needed um uh to move. At least 856 00:35:01,267 --> 00:35:03,967 um uh to move. At least somewhat from some of our um, 857 00:35:03,967 --> 00:35:06,700 somewhat from some of our um, let’s say very um but very 858 00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:08,400 let’s say very um but very unrealistic uh models and 859 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,833 unrealistic uh models and towards more um more of an 860 00:35:10,833 --> 00:35:13,600 towards more um more of an empirical micro data driven 861 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,133 empirical micro data driven approach. I think what you’re 862 00:35:16,133 --> 00:35:18,467 approach. I think what you’re describing used to be to where 863 00:35:18,467 --> 00:35:20,466 describing used to be to where I’m not only it was the eleven, 864 00:35:20,466 --> 00:35:22,666 I’m not only it was the eleven, but the theory was pretty uh 865 00:35:22,666 --> 00:35:25,233 but the theory was pretty uh you know we had a very uh 866 00:35:25,233 --> 00:35:26,767 you know we had a very uh simpler assumptions because 867 00:35:26,767 --> 00:35:28,233 simpler assumptions because that’s what we could do the 868 00:35:28,233 --> 00:35:30,534 that’s what we could do the reason and also because that’s 869 00:35:30,534 --> 00:35:32,400 reason and also because that’s what like the the the school 870 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,801 what like the the the school that was dominated from for 871 00:35:34,801 --> 00:35:36,301 that was dominated from for many years really believed in, 872 00:35:36,301 --> 00:35:40,301 many years really believed in, but I think the profession has 873 00:35:40,301 --> 00:35:42,767 but I think the profession has changed uh and it does change 874 00:35:42,767 --> 00:35:45,233 changed uh and it does change in in fundamental ways. First 875 00:35:45,233 --> 00:35:47,733 in in fundamental ways. First by um the fact that it is in 876 00:35:47,733 --> 00:35:49,966 by um the fact that it is in our uh you know much more if 877 00:35:49,966 --> 00:35:52,266 our uh you know much more if you’re. The fraction of people 878 00:35:52,266 --> 00:35:55,800 you’re. The fraction of people that get published in the every 879 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,801 that get published in the every month. it’s it’s it’s now more 880 00:35:58,801 --> 00:36:01,534 month. it’s it’s it’s now more uh umbilical microbial various 881 00:36:01,534 --> 00:36:06,967 uh umbilical microbial various kinds than than uh the Mac um 882 00:36:06,967 --> 00:36:12,533 kinds than than uh the Mac um and um the. Those papers uh I 883 00:36:12,533 --> 00:36:14,799 and um the. Those papers uh I also very strongly been 884 00:36:14,799 --> 00:36:17,201 also very strongly been influenced by the credibility 885 00:36:17,201 --> 00:36:17,867 influenced by the credibility Revolution and the economics, 886 00:36:17,867 --> 00:36:20,167 Revolution and the economics, which is that okay, you know 887 00:36:20,167 --> 00:36:24,199 which is that okay, you know what is preeminent is the facts 888 00:36:24,199 --> 00:36:26,000 what is preeminent is the facts and you’re establishing the 889 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,300 and you’re establishing the fact should rely on your 890 00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:29,700 fact should rely on your understanding of the statistics 891 00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:33,267 understanding of the statistics and your construction of of of 892 00:36:33,267 --> 00:36:34,767 and your construction of of of care compact on the experiments 893 00:36:34,767 --> 00:36:36,234 care compact on the experiments being an example of that, but 894 00:36:36,234 --> 00:36:43,267 being an example of that, but just an example and uh. And so 895 00:36:43,267 --> 00:36:46,834 just an example and uh. And so I think they also the the 896 00:36:46,834 --> 00:36:48,267 I think they also the the acceptance by a large part of 897 00:36:48,267 --> 00:36:51,266 acceptance by a large part of the profession that uh the fact 898 00:36:51,266 --> 00:36:54,867 the profession that uh the fact doin dominate theory every time 899 00:36:54,867 --> 00:36:56,867 doin dominate theory every time and what has happened. I think 900 00:36:56,867 --> 00:36:59,233 and what has happened. I think two as a result of that, 901 00:36:59,233 --> 00:37:01,166 two as a result of that, including my theory, is that 902 00:37:01,166 --> 00:37:02,033 including my theory, is that you know they have been a 903 00:37:02,033 --> 00:37:03,301 you know they have been a little bit force to fight 904 00:37:03,301 --> 00:37:06,733 little bit force to fight mothers that are also pressure 905 00:37:06,733 --> 00:37:08,201 mothers that are also pressure and we’re seeing you know the 906 00:37:08,201 --> 00:37:10,699 and we’re seeing you know the most of terrorists my colleague 907 00:37:10,699 --> 00:37:12,466 most of terrorists my colleague even running, for example, uh 908 00:37:12,466 --> 00:37:16,600 even running, for example, uh fighting. Sophisticated that 909 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,666 fighting. Sophisticated that have some of these in them and 910 00:37:18,666 --> 00:37:21,300 have some of these in them and explore some of the future, but 911 00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:25,267 explore some of the future, but uh the but what has happened is 912 00:37:25,267 --> 00:37:30,367 uh the but what has happened is that as women very soft quiet 913 00:37:30,367 --> 00:37:33,333 that as women very soft quiet is that uh economists are not 914 00:37:33,333 --> 00:37:38,833 is that uh economists are not the most active on Twitter uh 915 00:37:38,833 --> 00:37:40,967 the most active on Twitter uh the and there is a little bit 916 00:37:40,967 --> 00:37:42,899 the and there is a little bit of a difference and to speak 917 00:37:42,899 --> 00:37:45,367 of a difference and to speak out publicly on uh what we find 918 00:37:45,367 --> 00:37:47,334 out publicly on uh what we find if it’s not you know if it 919 00:37:47,334 --> 00:37:50,233 if it’s not you know if it doesn’t go to the doctor. So, 920 00:37:50,233 --> 00:37:53,000 doesn’t go to the doctor. So, for example, uh when the doctor 921 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,334 for example, uh when the doctor uh who uh his colleagues uh um 922 00:37:57,334 --> 00:37:59,734 uh who uh his colleagues uh um um uh the first people on the 923 00:37:59,734 --> 00:38:02,333 um uh the first people on the on the showing that the the 924 00:38:02,333 --> 00:38:04,000 on the showing that the the opening the access of China to 925 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,634 opening the access of China to the WT and the rise of China 926 00:38:05,634 --> 00:38:10,666 the WT and the rise of China and the exporting um our house 927 00:38:10,666 --> 00:38:12,833 and the exporting um our house had the consequences of 928 00:38:12,833 --> 00:38:14,667 had the consequences of creating a lot of unhappiness 929 00:38:14,667 --> 00:38:17,967 creating a lot of unhappiness and financial happiness in the 930 00:38:17,967 --> 00:38:22,667 and financial happiness in the US. There was a lot of pushback 931 00:38:22,667 --> 00:38:23,867 US. There was a lot of pushback uh not on saying you’re wrong, 932 00:38:23,867 --> 00:38:25,733 uh not on saying you’re wrong, but I’m saying well but if you 933 00:38:25,733 --> 00:38:26,767 but I’m saying well but if you stop discussing on those 934 00:38:26,767 --> 00:38:28,267 stop discussing on those results, people are going to 935 00:38:28,267 --> 00:38:29,167 results, people are going to think you don’t like trade like 936 00:38:29,167 --> 00:38:31,200 think you don’t like trade like are you on the tray and I’m 937 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:32,400 are you on the tray and I’m like no. I’m not anti trade, 938 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,000 like no. I’m not anti trade, but this is the fact that we 939 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,934 but this is the fact that we need to take on board and so 940 00:38:38,934 --> 00:38:39,699 need to take on board and so there’s a little bit of 941 00:38:39,699 --> 00:38:40,899 there’s a little bit of acceptance of airing out down 942 00:38:40,899 --> 00:38:44,301 acceptance of airing out down to the laundry and complexity 943 00:38:44,301 --> 00:38:46,967 to the laundry and complexity in public and as a result the 944 00:38:46,967 --> 00:38:49,067 in public and as a result the outward face of the profession 945 00:38:49,067 --> 00:38:54,201 outward face of the profession is still. To a large and slave 946 00:38:54,201 --> 00:38:57,967 is still. To a large and slave to uh economics who out there 947 00:38:57,967 --> 00:39:00,700 to uh economics who out there many years um and we know it is 948 00:39:00,700 --> 00:39:02,667 many years um and we know it is the exception of the younger 949 00:39:02,667 --> 00:39:06,233 the exception of the younger people like and who are quite 950 00:39:06,233 --> 00:39:07,700 people like and who are quite active but uh still my 951 00:39:07,700 --> 00:39:09,867 active but uh still my president a little bit of that 952 00:39:09,867 --> 00:39:11,900 president a little bit of that same view, but I think it 953 00:39:11,900 --> 00:39:14,400 same view, but I think it doesn’t go present the it’s the 954 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:15,967 doesn’t go present the it’s the view that still exist in the 955 00:39:15,967 --> 00:39:17,733 view that still exist in the profession. Don’t get me wrong, 956 00:39:17,733 --> 00:39:21,034 profession. Don’t get me wrong, but that’s not. 957 00:39:25,767 --> 00:39:29,033 mes binotes de 958 00:39:31,034 --> 00:39:32,466 majorité. Par exemple les uns 959 00:39:32,466 --> 00:39:35,567 majorité. Par exemple les uns du 960 00:39:49,633 --> 00:39:52,667 Will Seed Espan alors Twitter 961 00:39:52,667 --> 00:39:54,234 Will Seed Espan alors Twitter But hardly so that’s kind of 962 00:39:54,234 --> 00:39:55,666 But hardly so that’s kind of why we decided to write this 963 00:39:55,666 --> 00:39:58,334 why we decided to write this book to give voice to this, but 964 00:39:58,334 --> 00:39:59,966 book to give voice to this, but we think is actually the 965 00:39:59,966 --> 00:40:03,034 we think is actually the mainstream. 966 00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:04,699 So at the end of the day, um 967 00:40:04,699 --> 00:40:06,367 So at the end of the day, um the problem is really is is not 968 00:40:06,367 --> 00:40:08,699 the problem is really is is not the profession. The problem is 969 00:40:08,699 --> 00:40:09,700 the profession. The problem is that significant parts of the 970 00:40:09,700 --> 00:40:11,334 that significant parts of the profession don’t speak up 971 00:40:11,334 --> 00:40:13,966 profession don’t speak up enough. um is that uh yeah, I 972 00:40:13,966 --> 00:40:15,567 enough. um is that uh yeah, I think that that is correct. 973 00:40:15,567 --> 00:40:17,400 think that that is correct. That’s that’s which maybe is a 974 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:18,400 That’s that’s which maybe is a problem with the profession as 975 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,267 problem with the profession as well. But it’s a different the 976 00:40:22,267 --> 00:40:24,767 well. But it’s a different the research in all of its 977 00:40:24,767 --> 00:40:26,367 research in all of its complexity and richness doesn’t 978 00:40:26,367 --> 00:40:31,600 complexity and richness doesn’t make it to the public. 979 00:40:31,767 --> 00:40:35,201 weil Armin Eikensütenly äh Test 980 00:40:35,201 --> 00:40:38,200 weil Armin Eikensütenly äh Test a fidherd ähm my Area äh Wichis 981 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,834 a fidherd ähm my Area äh Wichis Matchmus oder Macro Euro so in 982 00:40:40,834 --> 00:40:43,634 Matchmus oder Macro Euro so in ähm The Haspinovery Fundamental 983 00:40:43,634 --> 00:40:45,200 ähm The Haspinovery Fundamental Shift in the last tenears and 984 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,467 Shift in the last tenears and ähm äh Ising Younger Generation 985 00:40:47,467 --> 00:40:49,533 ähm äh Ising Younger Generation it’s much modea drivan, Preps 986 00:40:49,533 --> 00:40:51,834 it’s much modea drivan, Preps Maleft, SUC, Haspoken Up Match 987 00:40:51,834 --> 00:40:54,233 Maleft, SUC, Haspoken Up Match Mach Moor and I sink it had 988 00:40:54,233 --> 00:40:56,866 Mach Moor and I sink it had had. Ähm es gniffig and Impact 989 00:40:56,866 --> 00:40:59,167 had. Ähm es gniffig and Impact äh on the debate in Ising also 990 00:40:59,167 --> 00:41:00,933 äh on the debate in Ising also provided to summic Stand the 991 00:41:00,933 --> 00:41:03,167 provided to summic Stand the act intellecture backing in den 992 00:41:03,167 --> 00:41:04,133 act intellecture backing in den intellecture Background I 993 00:41:04,133 --> 00:41:05,267 intellecture Background I wouldsay for the weasent 994 00:41:05,267 --> 00:41:05,966 wouldsay for the weasent recovery package that the 995 00:41:05,966 --> 00:41:09,233 recovery package that the European U I think 10 years 996 00:41:09,233 --> 00:41:10,867 European U I think 10 years ago, the intellectual backing 997 00:41:10,867 --> 00:41:11,934 ago, the intellectual backing for that wouldn’t have been 998 00:41:11,934 --> 00:41:13,467 for that wouldn’t have been there because many people was 999 00:41:13,467 --> 00:41:14,667 there because many people was very much more silent that 1000 00:41:14,667 --> 00:41:16,633 very much more silent that we’re peps on that side of the 1001 00:41:16,633 --> 00:41:17,367 we’re peps on that side of the argument and we’re using much 1002 00:41:17,367 --> 00:41:19,333 argument and we’re using much more periodical and new 1003 00:41:19,333 --> 00:41:21,400 more periodical and new research methodologies. but 1004 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,667 research methodologies. but okay, let me let me perhaps um 1005 00:41:23,667 --> 00:41:25,566 okay, let me let me perhaps um um push you and ask you on on 1006 00:41:25,566 --> 00:41:28,767 um push you and ask you on on my on my second, my second uh 1007 00:41:28,767 --> 00:41:31,400 my on my second, my second uh big question, which is really 1008 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,433 big question, which is really about um uh well economic the 1009 00:41:34,433 --> 00:41:35,300 about um uh well economic the economic system and the 1010 00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:36,533 economic system and the structure of our economic 1011 00:41:36,533 --> 00:41:38,799 structure of our economic system. I think a lot of the 1012 00:41:38,799 --> 00:41:41,466 system. I think a lot of the points that you raise, I mean 1013 00:41:41,466 --> 00:41:42,767 points that you raise, I mean you talk about dignity, you 1014 00:41:42,767 --> 00:41:45,367 you talk about dignity, you talk about mobility of workers 1015 00:41:45,367 --> 00:41:48,733 talk about mobility of workers right. I mean a huge topic 1016 00:41:48,733 --> 00:41:50,767 right. I mean a huge topic where um sort of um our 1017 00:41:50,767 --> 00:41:54,234 where um sort of um our economic system is still very 1018 00:41:54,234 --> 00:41:55,967 economic system is still very much centered around the notion 1019 00:41:55,967 --> 00:41:58,234 much centered around the notion that um well, I mean um 1020 00:41:58,234 --> 00:41:59,734 that um well, I mean um economic mobility is a good 1021 00:41:59,734 --> 00:42:01,267 economic mobility is a good thing. right I mean work 1022 00:42:01,267 --> 00:42:02,833 thing. right I mean work mobility is a good thing 1023 00:42:02,833 --> 00:42:05,000 mobility is a good thing because it helps um basically 1024 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,034 because it helps um basically smooths out out. 1025 00:42:10,333 --> 00:42:11,834 Cross Reachens, Cross Countrys 1026 00:42:11,834 --> 00:42:14,400 Cross Reachens, Cross Countrys and Sound, but our profession, 1027 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,266 and Sound, but our profession, but all to our political 1028 00:42:16,266 --> 00:42:18,634 but all to our political Economic System hast never 1029 00:42:18,634 --> 00:42:20,300 Economic System hast never really talk the bout ähm you 1030 00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:22,800 really talk the bout ähm you know bod is the the negative 1031 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:23,967 know bod is the the negative Science Effects of Dead, bodys 1032 00:42:23,967 --> 00:42:25,734 Science Effects of Dead, bodys the negative Science Effects in 1033 00:42:25,734 --> 00:42:27,134 the negative Science Effects in Trimes of Social Stibility in 1034 00:42:27,134 --> 00:42:30,299 Trimes of Social Stibility in Trips of. Family Stibility, 1035 00:42:30,299 --> 00:42:31,633 Trips of. Family Stibility, ähm, bestill in Chorage, 1036 00:42:31,633 --> 00:42:33,566 ähm, bestill in Chorage, Familys to commut, sausends 1037 00:42:33,566 --> 00:42:35,166 Familys to commut, sausends Kilo, Sausens of Kylamatris, 1038 00:42:35,166 --> 00:42:38,233 Kilo, Sausens of Kylamatris, ähm, äh, Litera Lebigus, 1039 00:42:38,233 --> 00:42:38,699 ähm, äh, Litera Lebigus, Economically efficient, but we 1040 00:42:38,699 --> 00:42:41,233 Economically efficient, but we don’t be as a profession, but I 1041 00:42:41,233 --> 00:42:42,267 don’t be as a profession, but I think also the economic and 1042 00:42:42,267 --> 00:42:44,666 think also the economic and political talks very little 1043 00:42:44,666 --> 00:42:46,333 political talks very little about the social the political 1044 00:42:46,333 --> 00:42:48,733 about the social the political the family consequences of uh 1045 00:42:48,733 --> 00:42:50,667 the family consequences of uh of such um such an approach and 1046 00:42:50,667 --> 00:42:53,234 of such um such an approach and so I’m just wondering um if you 1047 00:42:53,234 --> 00:42:55,767 so I’m just wondering um if you want to spend a bit of time 1048 00:42:55,767 --> 00:42:57,234 want to spend a bit of time talking about the economic 1049 00:42:57,234 --> 00:42:58,600 talking about the economic paradigm, I mean the economic 1050 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,867 paradigm, I mean the economic paradigm that puts profit 1051 00:43:00,867 --> 00:43:02,733 paradigm that puts profit organizations still very much 1052 00:43:02,733 --> 00:43:05,734 organizations still very much um at the center of um uh of 1053 00:43:05,734 --> 00:43:08,400 um at the center of um uh of the uh the. System and where 1054 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,000 the uh the. System and where you see the economic paradigm 1055 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,267 you see the economic paradigm and moving in the macro 1056 00:43:13,267 --> 00:43:14,666 and moving in the macro profession. um I mean there has 1057 00:43:14,666 --> 00:43:16,367 profession. um I mean there has been some attempts to um, for 1058 00:43:16,367 --> 00:43:18,300 been some attempts to um, for example, with the slits report 1059 00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:19,967 example, with the slits report and the Sarkozy uh commission 1060 00:43:19,967 --> 00:43:20,267 and the Sarkozy uh commission where there have been some 1061 00:43:20,267 --> 00:43:23,867 where there have been some attempts to sort of put other 1062 00:43:23,867 --> 00:43:26,434 attempts to sort of put other measures of well being um 1063 00:43:26,434 --> 00:43:27,767 measures of well being um upfront, there is so that they 1064 00:43:27,767 --> 00:43:29,234 upfront, there is so that they become more measurable and more 1065 00:43:29,234 --> 00:43:30,900 become more measurable and more visible and therefore more uh 1066 00:43:30,900 --> 00:43:32,299 visible and therefore more uh let’s say important in the 1067 00:43:32,299 --> 00:43:34,700 let’s say important in the political debate. um there’s 1068 00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:39,700 political debate. um there’s now also debates um among. 1069 00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:45,200 äh morgen ähm Green Golds, 1070 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:46,333 äh morgen ähm Green Golds, Vinetur and Cload, Social Golds 1071 00:43:46,333 --> 00:43:49,234 Vinetur and Cload, Social Golds in die soll auf Maximasation, 1072 00:43:49,234 --> 00:43:51,067 in die soll auf Maximasation, Function of Ferims. So, so this 1073 00:43:51,067 --> 00:43:53,201 Function of Ferims. So, so this is a very active the bete, ähm 1074 00:43:53,201 --> 00:43:54,734 is a very active the bete, ähm but it stilledy bade that eh 1075 00:43:54,734 --> 00:43:57,333 but it stilledy bade that eh Ising case and fully reach, ähm 1076 00:43:57,333 --> 00:43:58,700 Ising case and fully reach, ähm let’s a the desision making 1077 00:43:58,700 --> 00:44:01,000 let’s a the desision making level and äh prepepsicin share, 1078 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,500 level and äh prepepsicin share, just the bit your thinking, I 1079 00:44:02,500 --> 00:44:04,401 just the bit your thinking, I make do wine the fundamental 1080 00:44:04,401 --> 00:44:05,700 make do wine the fundamental Paradime change eh do we just 1081 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:08,333 Paradime change eh do we just need mob Pragmatic solutions 1082 00:44:08,333 --> 00:44:10,234 need mob Pragmatic solutions such as um, you know a 1083 00:44:10,234 --> 00:44:12,234 such as um, you know a universal basic income and you 1084 00:44:12,234 --> 00:44:15,734 universal basic income and you know as you described as uh 1085 00:44:15,734 --> 00:44:17,167 know as you described as uh transfers to households and 1086 00:44:17,167 --> 00:44:18,767 transfers to households and federal schemes. I mean where 1087 00:44:18,767 --> 00:44:21,266 federal schemes. I mean where do you see this more pragmatic 1088 00:44:21,266 --> 00:44:23,533 do you see this more pragmatic or more fundamentally paradigm 1089 00:44:23,533 --> 00:44:26,767 or more fundamentally paradigm change. I think that the the 1090 00:44:26,767 --> 00:44:29,933 change. I think that the the there are 1091 00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:34,201 many um to that question 1092 00:44:34,201 --> 00:44:35,733 many um to that question several several several 1093 00:44:35,733 --> 00:44:37,333 several several several different aspects. The first 1094 00:44:37,333 --> 00:44:39,834 different aspects. The first one is that uh I think with 1095 00:44:39,834 --> 00:44:42,834 one is that uh I think with respect to the mobility, I 1096 00:44:42,834 --> 00:44:46,434 respect to the mobility, I think economics have just um 1097 00:44:46,434 --> 00:44:47,134 think economics have just um completely forgotten to take 1098 00:44:47,134 --> 00:44:48,933 completely forgotten to take the cost of mobility to the 1099 00:44:48,933 --> 00:44:50,299 the cost of mobility to the worker in consolidation in the 1100 00:44:50,299 --> 00:44:51,800 worker in consolidation in the market. So we kind of assume 1101 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,267 market. So we kind of assume that people and it’s related to 1102 00:44:53,267 --> 00:44:55,066 that people and it’s related to this idea that uh people are 1103 00:44:55,066 --> 00:44:58,166 this idea that uh people are living. 1104 00:45:27,733 --> 00:45:30,234 Mobility uh in our mothers with 1105 00:45:30,234 --> 00:45:31,699 Mobility uh in our mothers with Accenture because it’s a huge 1106 00:45:31,699 --> 00:45:35,233 Accenture because it’s a huge distraction in what in in in 1107 00:45:35,233 --> 00:45:36,000 distraction in what in in in the response of people and 1108 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,399 the response of people and those costs are some of them 1109 00:45:38,399 --> 00:45:39,800 those costs are some of them are financial who are example, 1110 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,800 are financial who are example, there is a huge real estate 1111 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,299 there is a huge real estate issue. Some of them are pack 1112 00:45:43,299 --> 00:45:44,833 issue. Some of them are pack who are, for example, who is 1113 00:45:44,833 --> 00:45:46,400 who are, for example, who is gonna take care of the 1114 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:47,667 gonna take care of the children. Some of them are uh 1115 00:45:47,667 --> 00:45:49,900 children. Some of them are uh uh utility like family et 1116 00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:51,500 uh utility like family et cetera, and finally they’re all 1117 00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:52,967 cetera, and finally they’re all to the social cost of losing 1118 00:45:52,967 --> 00:45:55,234 to the social cost of losing your place in a in a social 1119 00:45:55,234 --> 00:45:59,034 your place in a in a social network and one of these. 1120 00:45:59,266 --> 00:46:01,067 Yeah. yeah, and that’s from the 1121 00:46:01,067 --> 00:46:03,299 Yeah. yeah, and that’s from the community and when we we just 1122 00:46:03,299 --> 00:46:04,700 community and when we we just forget that then you know, then 1123 00:46:04,700 --> 00:46:06,267 forget that then you know, then then we get the wrong answer. 1124 00:46:06,267 --> 00:46:08,667 then we get the wrong answer. and so I think that could be it 1125 00:46:08,667 --> 00:46:10,234 and so I think that could be it doesn’t take it doesn’t take 1126 00:46:10,234 --> 00:46:11,334 doesn’t take it doesn’t take like a phone number that change 1127 00:46:11,334 --> 00:46:12,767 like a phone number that change in the way we are thinking 1128 00:46:12,767 --> 00:46:15,433 in the way we are thinking about how we make the decision 1129 00:46:15,433 --> 00:46:17,867 about how we make the decision really like else to incorporate 1130 00:46:17,867 --> 00:46:19,334 really like else to incorporate those things in in in the 1131 00:46:19,334 --> 00:46:21,800 those things in in in the modern and um, and I think some 1132 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,267 modern and um, and I think some people are starting to do it. 1133 00:46:23,267 --> 00:46:24,767 people are starting to do it. but this is this is not 1134 00:46:24,767 --> 00:46:27,000 but this is this is not happening in the in a very 1135 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,034 happening in the in a very massive way. To my knowledge, 1136 00:46:29,034 --> 00:46:31,367 massive way. To my knowledge, at least in my core and then 1137 00:46:31,367 --> 00:46:32,733 at least in my core and then there’s no question you ask me 1138 00:46:32,733 --> 00:46:35,466 there’s no question you ask me is just for a point of view. 1139 00:46:35,466 --> 00:46:37,233 is just for a point of view. Should we stop maximizing GPO 1140 00:46:37,233 --> 00:46:39,467 Should we stop maximizing GPO country stop maximizing GDP, 1141 00:46:39,467 --> 00:46:41,133 country stop maximizing GDP, and this is something that we 1142 00:46:41,133 --> 00:46:43,900 and this is something that we argue very uh very clearly in 1143 00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:45,800 argue very uh very clearly in the book that uh the in fact 1144 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,600 the book that uh the in fact the focus on GDP uh the main uh 1145 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,734 the focus on GDP uh the main uh you know cuts for the 1146 00:46:51,734 --> 00:46:52,967 you know cuts for the competition between nation has 1147 00:46:52,967 --> 00:46:55,666 competition between nation has been a disaster for two reasons 1148 00:46:55,666 --> 00:46:58,267 been a disaster for two reasons number one. That’s not the. So, 1149 00:46:58,267 --> 00:46:59,734 number one. That’s not the. So, for example, the green at the 1150 00:46:59,734 --> 00:47:02,267 for example, the green at the level of nations of the world 1151 00:47:02,267 --> 00:47:03,633 level of nations of the world because soon, there will be no 1152 00:47:03,633 --> 00:47:05,366 because soon, there will be no to be had if there is no plan 1153 00:47:05,366 --> 00:47:09,433 to be had if there is no plan to be here um so um we don’t 1154 00:47:09,433 --> 00:47:12,634 to be here um so um we don’t even know how to affect GDP 1155 00:47:12,634 --> 00:47:13,633 even know how to affect GDP anyways. Uh I mean you know 1156 00:47:13,633 --> 00:47:16,733 anyways. Uh I mean you know what not to do you know high 1157 00:47:16,733 --> 00:47:18,234 what not to do you know high you know to be avoided but 1158 00:47:18,234 --> 00:47:21,033 you know to be avoided but beyond like the very basic uh 1159 00:47:21,033 --> 00:47:22,767 beyond like the very basic uh getting you your fundamental 1160 00:47:22,767 --> 00:47:26,267 getting you your fundamental rights we my question is 1161 00:47:26,267 --> 00:47:28,600 rights we my question is haven’t been able to tell us on 1162 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:29,734 haven’t been able to tell us on like it’s a good set of to make 1163 00:47:29,734 --> 00:47:32,834 like it’s a good set of to make your your country grow. Do know 1164 00:47:32,834 --> 00:47:35,433 your your country grow. Do know we have ideas the ideas, but 1165 00:47:35,433 --> 00:47:37,267 we have ideas the ideas, but but in just as a matter of 1166 00:47:37,267 --> 00:47:39,734 but in just as a matter of accounting, it’s very hard to 1167 00:47:39,734 --> 00:47:41,201 accounting, it’s very hard to relate to performance with a 1168 00:47:41,201 --> 00:47:43,734 relate to performance with a set of policies they have 1169 00:47:43,734 --> 00:47:45,233 set of policies they have experiment in the countries 1170 00:47:45,233 --> 00:47:48,934 experiment in the countries with very different uh um 1171 00:47:48,934 --> 00:47:50,400 with very different uh um strategies of going well and 1172 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:51,967 strategies of going well and countries with very similar. 1173 00:47:51,967 --> 00:47:53,367 countries with very similar. I’ve had very different 1174 00:47:53,367 --> 00:47:54,500 I’ve had very different experiences, so we don’t even 1175 00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:57,300 experiences, so we don’t even know how to get there and so it 1176 00:47:57,300 --> 00:48:00,167 know how to get there and so it is clear that one it seems 1177 00:48:00,167 --> 00:48:02,699 is clear that one it seems really clear. One should focus 1178 00:48:02,699 --> 00:48:05,600 really clear. One should focus on other things. I’m not so you 1179 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,000 on other things. I’m not so you kind of tore them in to some 1180 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,434 kind of tore them in to some new things that people would 1181 00:48:09,434 --> 00:48:13,466 new things that people would then chase uh but um you know 1182 00:48:13,466 --> 00:48:14,767 then chase uh but um you know when you need to take into 1183 00:48:14,767 --> 00:48:17,166 when you need to take into account the planet when it to 1184 00:48:17,166 --> 00:48:18,767 account the planet when it to take into account inequality 1185 00:48:18,767 --> 00:48:19,966 take into account inequality that makes people doing being 1186 00:48:19,966 --> 00:48:22,433 that makes people doing being unhappy when it needs uh they 1187 00:48:22,433 --> 00:48:24,633 unhappy when it needs uh they can do a people’s well being 1188 00:48:24,633 --> 00:48:27,733 can do a people’s well being more generally. and if you do 1189 00:48:27,733 --> 00:48:29,200 more generally. and if you do that and with it’s going to 1190 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:30,733 that and with it’s going to change the policy that that 1191 00:48:30,733 --> 00:48:32,333 change the policy that that that you pick at a given point 1192 00:48:32,333 --> 00:48:34,700 that you pick at a given point in time. They’re again is 1193 00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:35,900 in time. They’re again is something that they might help, 1194 00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:38,300 something that they might help, but I think a lot of people 1195 00:48:38,300 --> 00:48:42,466 but I think a lot of people with their priorities were um I 1196 00:48:42,466 --> 00:48:45,233 with their priorities were um I think it also puts made it very 1197 00:48:45,233 --> 00:48:46,500 think it also puts made it very clear to governments what they 1198 00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:48,766 clear to governments what they can control what they don’t 1199 00:48:48,766 --> 00:48:50,267 can control what they don’t control and what they need to 1200 00:48:50,267 --> 00:48:51,701 control and what they need to do to be prepared against what 1201 00:48:51,701 --> 00:48:53,200 do to be prepared against what they don’t control the price of 1202 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:54,334 they don’t control the price of the most important things in 1203 00:48:54,334 --> 00:48:56,300 the most important things in people’s life, which is to be 1204 00:48:56,300 --> 00:48:59,333 people’s life, which is to be alive in the first place. 1205 00:48:59,333 --> 00:49:01,799 alive in the first place. Enough for one I think uh it 1206 00:49:01,799 --> 00:49:03,767 Enough for one I think uh it might be a moment where the 1207 00:49:03,767 --> 00:49:07,667 might be a moment where the stage with us the green 1208 00:49:07,667 --> 00:49:10,300 stage with us the green imperative uh and uh and the 1209 00:49:10,300 --> 00:49:12,634 imperative uh and uh and the more generally taking into 1210 00:49:12,634 --> 00:49:16,900 more generally taking into account of you have one and the 1211 00:49:16,900 --> 00:49:18,166 account of you have one and the paycheck of the aggregate 1212 00:49:18,166 --> 00:49:22,733 paycheck of the aggregate paycheck in the form of HDB. 1213 00:49:22,733 --> 00:49:24,167 paycheck in the form of HDB. Yes, indeed, I think on this 1214 00:49:24,167 --> 00:49:25,666 Yes, indeed, I think on this point I would perhaps 1215 00:49:25,666 --> 00:49:28,233 point I would perhaps complemented by saying I still 1216 00:49:28,233 --> 00:49:31,267 complemented by saying I still think some visible and clearly 1217 00:49:31,267 --> 00:49:33,667 think some visible and clearly um measurable indicators um are 1218 00:49:33,667 --> 00:49:34,900 um measurable indicators um are gonna be helpful for the 1219 00:49:34,900 --> 00:49:37,500 gonna be helpful for the political discourse um and I 1220 00:49:37,500 --> 00:49:39,634 political discourse um and I think if I if there’s one thing 1221 00:49:39,634 --> 00:49:42,767 think if I if there’s one thing I really think um uh can be 1222 00:49:42,767 --> 00:49:44,200 I really think um uh can be easily fixed and improved, 1223 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:45,234 easily fixed and improved, especially in the European 1224 00:49:45,234 --> 00:49:46,166 especially in the European Union, is that the European 1225 00:49:46,166 --> 00:49:49,267 Union, is that the European Union um and the and the 1226 00:49:49,267 --> 00:49:50,000 Union um and the and the institutions of the European 1227 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,700 institutions of the European Union uh do so. And two measure 1228 00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:55,666 Union uh do so. And two measure some of those things uh more 1229 00:49:55,666 --> 00:49:57,667 some of those things uh more transparently and in in in in a 1230 00:49:57,667 --> 00:49:59,699 transparently and in in in in a clearer way as a way to shape 1231 00:49:59,699 --> 00:50:01,299 clearer way as a way to shape the political debate, and I 1232 00:50:01,299 --> 00:50:03,867 the political debate, and I think that during the pandemic, 1233 00:50:03,867 --> 00:50:05,167 think that during the pandemic, it’s actually missed the 1234 00:50:05,167 --> 00:50:05,866 it’s actually missed the opportunity. The commission 1235 00:50:05,866 --> 00:50:07,967 opportunity. The commission could have been much more force 1236 00:50:07,967 --> 00:50:10,467 could have been much more force coming showing much more data 1237 00:50:10,467 --> 00:50:13,500 coming showing much more data as regards as regards regards 1238 00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:15,200 as regards as regards regards environmental issues during the 1239 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:16,834 environmental issues during the pandemic and become a reference 1240 00:50:16,834 --> 00:50:18,299 pandemic and become a reference place really for for this kind 1241 00:50:18,299 --> 00:50:19,934 place really for for this kind of measures so as to influence 1242 00:50:19,934 --> 00:50:22,967 of measures so as to influence the discourse really. I would 1243 00:50:22,967 --> 00:50:24,867 the discourse really. I would like to ask a few questions 1244 00:50:24,867 --> 00:50:26,700 like to ask a few questions from our audience uh one of my 1245 00:50:26,700 --> 00:50:29,167 from our audience uh one of my colleagues clients uh it’s 1246 00:50:29,167 --> 00:50:31,801 colleagues clients uh it’s asking a question again. um 1247 00:50:31,801 --> 00:50:34,266 asking a question again. um more on the um on the 1248 00:50:34,266 --> 00:50:36,066 more on the um on the profession um he’s asking could 1249 00:50:36,066 --> 00:50:38,201 profession um he’s asking could a bias in favor of 1250 00:50:38,201 --> 00:50:39,767 a bias in favor of counterintuitive results in 1251 00:50:39,767 --> 00:50:41,199 counterintuitive results in economic publications, 1252 00:50:41,199 --> 00:50:43,900 economic publications, explained the problems in the 1253 00:50:43,900 --> 00:50:45,400 explained the problems in the economic professions that you 1254 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,967 economic professions that you discussed at the beginning. No, 1255 00:50:47,967 --> 00:50:49,900 discussed at the beginning. No, I don’t think that there is 1256 00:50:49,900 --> 00:50:50,800 I don’t think that there is bias actually, I’ve been an 1257 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:55,666 bias actually, I’ve been an editor and a journal for now. 1258 00:50:55,666 --> 00:50:59,533 editor and a journal for now. Oh, gosh almost 20 years uh at 1259 00:50:59,533 --> 00:51:00,800 Oh, gosh almost 20 years uh at the journal of another, so I’ve 1260 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,266 the journal of another, so I’ve seen very many people in 1261 00:51:02,266 --> 00:51:05,700 seen very many people in referees and I can tell you our 1262 00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:08,799 referees and I can tell you our profession is so conservative 1263 00:51:08,799 --> 00:51:11,667 profession is so conservative that if anything the best is 1264 00:51:11,667 --> 00:51:14,167 that if anything the best is you anything that is new really 1265 00:51:14,167 --> 00:51:17,801 you anything that is new really scare people off and so it is 1266 00:51:17,801 --> 00:51:19,367 scare people off and so it is true that there are some you 1267 00:51:19,367 --> 00:51:21,867 true that there are some you know, remarkable people with 1268 00:51:21,867 --> 00:51:22,367 know, remarkable people with remarkable finding that get 1269 00:51:22,367 --> 00:51:24,700 remarkable finding that get published uh from time to time 1270 00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:26,267 published uh from time to time and those people might be. So 1271 00:51:26,267 --> 00:51:28,866 and those people might be. So because the the the reason why 1272 00:51:28,866 --> 00:51:30,966 because the the the reason why the finding is that they were 1273 00:51:30,966 --> 00:51:33,966 the finding is that they were just flus and it is that these 1274 00:51:33,966 --> 00:51:36,699 just flus and it is that these papers retain attention because 1275 00:51:36,699 --> 00:51:37,800 papers retain attention because precisely because they’re more 1276 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,167 precisely because they’re more interested and we all kind of 1277 00:51:39,167 --> 00:51:41,134 interested and we all kind of you know like to read them. but 1278 00:51:41,134 --> 00:51:42,500 you know like to read them. but the vast majority of what gets 1279 00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:45,801 the vast majority of what gets published in economics is is 1280 00:51:45,801 --> 00:51:47,699 published in economics is is you know doesn’t surprise 1281 00:51:47,699 --> 00:51:49,833 you know doesn’t surprise anybody if anything? that’s 1282 00:51:49,833 --> 00:51:51,267 anybody if anything? that’s like? I think that’s that’s the 1283 00:51:51,267 --> 00:51:53,467 like? I think that’s that’s the best we have to we have to go 1284 00:51:53,467 --> 00:51:57,167 best we have to we have to go against um you know. You’re not 1285 00:51:57,167 --> 00:51:58,633 against um you know. You’re not conservative in the political 1286 00:51:58,633 --> 00:52:00,801 conservative in the political sense we are conservative in 1287 00:52:00,801 --> 00:52:03,234 sense we are conservative in the fight to make mistakes. so 1288 00:52:03,234 --> 00:52:06,367 the fight to make mistakes. so in that sense, IIII see the 1289 00:52:06,367 --> 00:52:07,967 in that sense, IIII see the psychology as much more for 1290 00:52:07,967 --> 00:52:10,267 psychology as much more for that past. It’s really like new 1291 00:52:10,267 --> 00:52:13,400 that past. It’s really like new things uh economist, mostly 1292 00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,833 things uh economist, mostly like you know to clipper. check 1293 00:52:16,833 --> 00:52:19,467 like you know to clipper. check um and and so in life, it’s not 1294 00:52:19,467 --> 00:52:20,967 um and and so in life, it’s not what you what you what you like 1295 00:52:20,967 --> 00:52:23,367 what you what you what you like to see it so many ways to 1296 00:52:23,367 --> 00:52:24,900 to see it so many ways to demonstrate that something that 1297 00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:28,000 demonstrate that something that is an. 1298 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,767 So um II get lots of questions 1299 00:52:33,767 --> 00:52:35,500 So um II get lots of questions here, so I can’t answer. I 1300 00:52:35,500 --> 00:52:36,933 here, so I can’t answer. I can’t ask them all but let me 1301 00:52:36,933 --> 00:52:39,733 can’t ask them all but let me still ask um one or two if I 1302 00:52:39,733 --> 00:52:42,299 still ask um one or two if I may uh one question is by um 1303 00:52:42,299 --> 00:52:45,067 may uh one question is by um Elena Flores She’s asking what 1304 00:52:45,067 --> 00:52:46,299 Elena Flores She’s asking what would you look at when 1305 00:52:46,299 --> 00:52:48,033 would you look at when Rethinking social protection in 1306 00:52:48,033 --> 00:52:50,533 Rethinking social protection in order to put dignity at the 1307 00:52:50,533 --> 00:52:52,099 order to put dignity at the center? Can this be done at the 1308 00:52:52,099 --> 00:52:54,933 center? Can this be done at the national level? or does it need 1309 00:52:54,933 --> 00:52:57,700 national level? or does it need to be a much more global 1310 00:52:57,700 --> 00:52:59,666 to be a much more global approach? I think it’s it’s it 1311 00:52:59,666 --> 00:53:00,899 approach? I think it’s it’s it needs to be done almost at the 1312 00:53:00,899 --> 00:53:02,367 needs to be done almost at the mall, local and national level 1313 00:53:02,367 --> 00:53:05,967 mall, local and national level to start with uh to them. Um 1314 00:53:05,967 --> 00:53:08,667 to start with uh to them. Um you know examples and uh very 1315 00:53:08,667 --> 00:53:10,634 you know examples and uh very concrete ways to do that and 1316 00:53:10,634 --> 00:53:12,699 concrete ways to do that and that that success doing that 1317 00:53:12,699 --> 00:53:14,000 that that success doing that because since it’s not at all 1318 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,300 because since it’s not at all the way we’ve been thinking 1319 00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:16,867 the way we’ve been thinking about social connections and 1320 00:53:16,867 --> 00:53:18,466 about social connections and now that we are a lot of 1321 00:53:18,466 --> 00:53:20,399 now that we are a lot of mistakes made so I think that 1322 00:53:20,399 --> 00:53:21,733 mistakes made so I think that the most promising thing I have 1323 00:53:21,733 --> 00:53:24,400 the most promising thing I have seen in this respect of more 1324 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:25,867 seen in this respect of more like local experience 1325 00:53:25,867 --> 00:53:27,300 like local experience experiments where some people 1326 00:53:27,300 --> 00:53:30,299 experiments where some people are very, you know convinced 1327 00:53:30,299 --> 00:53:31,967 are very, you know convinced that this is what needs to do 1328 00:53:31,967 --> 00:53:33,634 that this is what needs to do so, for example, in experiments 1329 00:53:33,634 --> 00:53:36,966 so, for example, in experiments that. I was backed off looks at 1330 00:53:36,966 --> 00:53:39,366 that. I was backed off looks at the program for young people 1331 00:53:39,366 --> 00:53:40,633 the program for young people who are adopted out of school 1332 00:53:40,633 --> 00:53:41,767 who are adopted out of school and I want to know an 1333 00:53:41,767 --> 00:53:44,733 and I want to know an employment and but somehow 1334 00:53:44,733 --> 00:53:45,867 employment and but somehow interested in starting a small 1335 00:53:45,867 --> 00:53:47,866 interested in starting a small business. So generally this 1336 00:53:47,866 --> 00:53:48,799 business. So generally this people they go to the 1337 00:53:48,799 --> 00:53:50,234 people they go to the employment office in the number 1338 00:53:50,234 --> 00:53:52,833 employment office in the number of them. Look you have no 1339 00:53:52,833 --> 00:53:53,967 of them. Look you have no skills like what do you think 1340 00:53:53,967 --> 00:53:55,233 skills like what do you think you wanna start a small 1341 00:53:55,233 --> 00:53:56,766 you wanna start a small business instead? Why don’t you 1342 00:53:56,766 --> 00:53:58,367 business instead? Why don’t you go? take this training and 1343 00:53:58,367 --> 00:53:59,533 go? take this training and become you know trying to 1344 00:53:59,533 --> 00:54:02,167 become you know trying to become a plan and then we can 1345 00:54:02,167 --> 00:54:03,167 become a plan and then we can think about what you’re going 1346 00:54:03,167 --> 00:54:08,699 think about what you’re going to do next and what. It’s a 1347 00:54:08,699 --> 00:54:10,734 to do next and what. It’s a service is to start from the 1348 00:54:10,734 --> 00:54:12,600 service is to start from the project of those young people. 1349 00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,333 project of those young people. However, that crazy they might 1350 00:54:14,333 --> 00:54:17,034 However, that crazy they might seem a priority and spend so 1351 00:54:17,034 --> 00:54:18,399 seem a priority and spend so much time developing the 1352 00:54:18,399 --> 00:54:19,734 much time developing the developing the project with 1353 00:54:19,734 --> 00:54:21,534 developing the project with them in the same way that you 1354 00:54:21,534 --> 00:54:22,900 them in the same way that you would if you were a bunch of 1355 00:54:22,900 --> 00:54:24,833 would if you were a bunch of I’m taking the projects super 1356 00:54:24,833 --> 00:54:26,967 I’m taking the projects super serious and at the end of the 1357 00:54:26,967 --> 00:54:28,767 serious and at the end of the day, I’m not so interested 1358 00:54:28,767 --> 00:54:30,300 day, I’m not so interested necessarily stuff in this 1359 00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:31,000 necessarily stuff in this project or some of the project 1360 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,500 project or some of the project it get started, but they were 1361 00:54:33,500 --> 00:54:35,866 it get started, but they were interested in giving back 1362 00:54:35,866 --> 00:54:36,933 interested in giving back confidence to this youth that 1363 00:54:36,933 --> 00:54:37,667 confidence to this youth that they can have an idea That’s 1364 00:54:37,667 --> 00:54:40,100 they can have an idea That’s actually a sensible one and 1365 00:54:40,100 --> 00:54:43,099 actually a sensible one and from then. They can move on to 1366 00:54:43,099 --> 00:54:45,600 from then. They can move on to something else and this result 1367 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:46,700 something else and this result from this experiment is 1368 00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:48,700 from this experiment is possible. We are huge effect on 1369 00:54:48,700 --> 00:54:51,034 possible. We are huge effect on mental health and secondly, the 1370 00:54:51,034 --> 00:54:52,834 mental health and secondly, the kid who actually more likely to 1371 00:54:52,834 --> 00:54:54,800 kid who actually more likely to end up in employment like as in 1372 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,266 end up in employment like as in a wage job uh as opposed to 1373 00:54:58,266 --> 00:55:00,733 a wage job uh as opposed to either unemployment offset so 1374 00:55:00,733 --> 00:55:02,233 either unemployment offset so they had you know at the end of 1375 00:55:02,233 --> 00:55:03,934 they had you know at the end of the journey they probably ended 1376 00:55:03,934 --> 00:55:08,766 the journey they probably ended up where it makes sense. but 1377 00:55:08,766 --> 00:55:10,567 up where it makes sense. but not with the sacrificing their 1378 00:55:10,567 --> 00:55:12,800 not with the sacrificing their dignity and this is a set of 1379 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:14,767 dignity and this is a set of kids who are so distrustful of 1380 00:55:14,767 --> 00:55:16,066 kids who are so distrustful of the institution because they 1381 00:55:16,066 --> 00:55:19,833 the institution because they have been. Up all the lives 1382 00:55:19,833 --> 00:55:21,500 have been. Up all the lives that um you would think that’s 1383 00:55:21,500 --> 00:55:23,799 that um you would think that’s that’s you know. This is a hard 1384 00:55:23,799 --> 00:55:25,434 that’s you know. This is a hard group of of of of kids to do it 1385 00:55:25,434 --> 00:55:27,834 group of of of of kids to do it with and this was uh an 1386 00:55:27,834 --> 00:55:30,966 with and this was uh an amazingly successful program so 1387 00:55:30,966 --> 00:55:33,434 amazingly successful program so it’s more like we need to have 1388 00:55:33,434 --> 00:55:36,734 it’s more like we need to have many of those initiatives that 1389 00:55:36,734 --> 00:55:38,966 many of those initiatives that came from the blueprints for 1390 00:55:38,966 --> 00:55:40,733 came from the blueprints for national programs and then a 1391 00:55:40,733 --> 00:55:42,767 national programs and then a global effort effort. But 1392 00:55:42,767 --> 00:55:45,767 global effort effort. But that’s a little bit my best. So 1393 00:55:45,767 --> 00:55:48,167 that’s a little bit my best. So if you allow me one props one 1394 00:55:48,167 --> 00:55:52,533 if you allow me one props one last question is um it’s by and 1395 00:55:52,533 --> 00:55:55,400 last question is um it’s by and Berry. He’s asking you about um 1396 00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,134 Berry. He’s asking you about um whether they are significant 1397 00:55:57,134 --> 00:55:58,600 whether they are significant differences between poor and 1398 00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,234 differences between poor and rich countries in the 1399 00:56:00,234 --> 00:56:01,666 rich countries in the application of the ideas that 1400 00:56:01,666 --> 00:56:03,533 application of the ideas that you presented today is is the 1401 00:56:03,533 --> 00:56:05,866 you presented today is is the typically more trust in 1402 00:56:05,866 --> 00:56:06,533 typically more trust in government in the bigger 1403 00:56:06,533 --> 00:56:08,201 government in the bigger countries. I mean that’s that’s 1404 00:56:08,201 --> 00:56:10,299 countries. I mean that’s that’s perhaps one dimension. uh I 1405 00:56:10,299 --> 00:56:11,700 perhaps one dimension. uh I mean in the richer countries. 1406 00:56:11,700 --> 00:56:12,800 mean in the richer countries. that’s one dimension and 1407 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,267 that’s one dimension and another dimension is. The issue 1408 00:56:15,267 --> 00:56:17,699 another dimension is. The issue of financial incentives uh when 1409 00:56:17,699 --> 00:56:19,500 of financial incentives uh when you’re very poor financial 1410 00:56:19,500 --> 00:56:20,000 you’re very poor financial incentives matter much much 1411 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,866 incentives matter much much more, I mean if you can just 1412 00:56:21,866 --> 00:56:23,767 more, I mean if you can just give us a bit of a sense, how 1413 00:56:23,767 --> 00:56:25,634 give us a bit of a sense, how much what you presented, which 1414 00:56:25,634 --> 00:56:27,600 much what you presented, which look very much um applying to 1415 00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:28,866 look very much um applying to the United States also applies 1416 00:56:28,866 --> 00:56:32,700 the United States also applies to poor developing countries um 1417 00:56:32,700 --> 00:56:34,334 to poor developing countries um so is currently sitting I think 1418 00:56:34,334 --> 00:56:35,966 so is currently sitting I think in New Delhi, India, I mean if 1419 00:56:35,966 --> 00:56:37,767 in New Delhi, India, I mean if you can just give us a sense 1420 00:56:37,767 --> 00:56:39,666 you can just give us a sense from a development perspective, 1421 00:56:39,666 --> 00:56:41,567 from a development perspective, yes. So if you happen to be a 1422 00:56:41,567 --> 00:56:45,967 yes. So if you happen to be a real, so it’s it’s uh uh. 1423 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:17,767 The trust in government and I 1424 00:57:17,767 --> 00:57:19,800 The trust in government and I think it’s one where it’s 1425 00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:21,200 think it’s one where it’s actually probably doesn’t on 1426 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,500 actually probably doesn’t on the country’s GDP in the sense 1427 00:57:24,500 --> 00:57:26,900 the country’s GDP in the sense that they are places where 1428 00:57:26,900 --> 00:57:28,299 that they are places where people have high trust in God 1429 00:57:28,299 --> 00:57:30,833 people have high trust in God and that are very poor uh and 1430 00:57:30,833 --> 00:57:32,666 and that are very poor uh and they are places where people 1431 00:57:32,666 --> 00:57:33,966 they are places where people have lost trust of guns that 1432 00:57:33,966 --> 00:57:35,867 have lost trust of guns that are very rich with the 1433 00:57:35,867 --> 00:57:37,900 are very rich with the champions. probably uh the US 1434 00:57:37,900 --> 00:57:40,267 champions. probably uh the US and then you know until you 1435 00:57:40,267 --> 00:57:41,833 and then you know until you compare the USS Denmark. 1436 00:57:41,833 --> 00:57:43,100 compare the USS Denmark. They’re very similar to be back 1437 00:57:43,100 --> 00:57:47,033 They’re very similar to be back and be done very different in 1438 00:57:47,033 --> 00:57:49,433 and be done very different in two. If you compare, you know, 1439 00:57:49,433 --> 00:57:51,900 two. If you compare, you know, I don’t know on that and the 1440 00:57:51,900 --> 00:57:53,334 I don’t know on that and the neighborhood and they are very 1441 00:57:53,334 --> 00:57:54,500 neighborhood and they are very different trust in the 1442 00:57:54,500 --> 00:57:55,767 different trust in the government so that I think they 1443 00:57:55,767 --> 00:57:57,533 government so that I think they runs more on the history of the 1444 00:57:57,533 --> 00:57:59,967 runs more on the history of the country and and previous 1445 00:57:59,967 --> 00:58:01,333 country and and previous experiences on the financial 1446 00:58:01,333 --> 00:58:03,167 experiences on the financial incentives, I actually think it 1447 00:58:03,167 --> 00:58:06,334 incentives, I actually think it doesn’t make a difference. uh 1448 00:58:06,334 --> 00:58:09,199 doesn’t make a difference. uh either uh in the sense that uh, 1449 00:58:09,199 --> 00:58:10,567 either uh in the sense that uh, for example, the I show you 1450 00:58:10,567 --> 00:58:11,500 for example, the I show you where I actually mostly poor 1451 00:58:11,500 --> 00:58:14,466 where I actually mostly poor and nearly one income on and uh 1452 00:58:14,466 --> 00:58:18,233 and nearly one income on and uh the if anything um because. 1453 00:58:18,233 --> 00:58:19,300 the if anything um because. More people in four entries 1454 00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:23,000 More people in four entries that closes to traps It’s in 1455 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:23,767 that closes to traps It’s in two countries that you’re 1456 00:58:23,767 --> 00:58:26,267 two countries that you’re finding this effectively other 1457 00:58:26,267 --> 00:58:27,067 finding this effectively other way where you actually help 1458 00:58:27,067 --> 00:58:29,267 way where you actually help people financially and they 1459 00:58:29,267 --> 00:58:30,833 people financially and they work more instead of working 1460 00:58:30,833 --> 00:58:33,266 work more instead of working less. so, for example, in in in 1461 00:58:33,266 --> 00:58:34,934 less. so, for example, in in in seven um very, very poor 1462 00:58:34,934 --> 00:58:37,400 seven um very, very poor country uh tons of a large 1463 00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:38,933 country uh tons of a large transfer, we’re given very poor 1464 00:58:38,933 --> 00:58:40,800 transfer, we’re given very poor people in the one of the 1465 00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,367 people in the one of the country and what you find when 1466 00:58:42,367 --> 00:58:43,699 country and what you find when people get this very large 1467 00:58:43,699 --> 00:58:45,266 people get this very large transfers that they work more 1468 00:58:45,266 --> 00:58:46,801 transfers that they work more as a result of those very last 1469 00:58:46,801 --> 00:58:48,867 as a result of those very last time, not to not to not less 1470 00:58:48,867 --> 00:58:51,333 time, not to not to not less and there is a there. We don’t 1471 00:58:51,333 --> 00:58:51,967 and there is a there. We don’t want two countries as well 1472 00:58:51,967 --> 00:58:53,166 want two countries as well actually because there is 1473 00:58:53,166 --> 00:58:55,233 actually because there is evidence of universal basic 1474 00:58:55,233 --> 00:58:56,166 evidence of universal basic income for poor countries. We 1475 00:58:56,166 --> 00:58:57,967 income for poor countries. We don’t have in rich countries 1476 00:58:57,967 --> 00:58:59,733 don’t have in rich countries and generally every points in 1477 00:58:59,733 --> 00:59:01,067 and generally every points in the direction that if anything 1478 00:59:01,067 --> 00:59:05,066 the direction that if anything the effects and to be positive, 1479 00:59:05,066 --> 00:59:06,534 the effects and to be positive, which, in fact, it leads us to 1480 00:59:06,534 --> 00:59:09,866 which, in fact, it leads us to different conclusion on the the 1481 00:59:09,866 --> 00:59:11,201 different conclusion on the the validity of poor and rich 1482 00:59:11,201 --> 00:59:12,700 validity of poor and rich countries are of the validity 1483 00:59:12,700 --> 00:59:14,400 countries are of the validity of something like DBI, for 1484 00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:15,766 of something like DBI, for example, in poor and rich 1485 00:59:15,766 --> 00:59:16,800 example, in poor and rich country. where in the book we 1486 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,000 country. where in the book we are we come out in favor of 1487 00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,466 are we come out in favor of universal very basic. In the 1488 00:59:21,466 --> 00:59:24,200 universal very basic. In the poor countries uh and not in a 1489 00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,667 poor countries uh and not in a rich countries uh for reason we 1490 00:59:27,667 --> 00:59:28,334 rich countries uh for reason we determine the book, but I have 1491 00:59:28,334 --> 00:59:29,800 determine the book, but I have to do is the fact that in very 1492 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,300 to do is the fact that in very poor countries where um you 1493 00:59:33,300 --> 00:59:36,266 poor countries where um you know food subsidies foods um 1494 00:59:36,266 --> 00:59:38,000 know food subsidies foods um substance is at stake uh or 1495 00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,934 substance is at stake uh or even a very small income can 1496 00:59:39,934 --> 00:59:41,167 even a very small income can make the difference between a 1497 00:59:41,167 --> 00:59:42,966 make the difference between a dignified life and not and 1498 00:59:42,966 --> 00:59:44,334 dignified life and not and that’s less to enrich countries 1499 00:59:44,334 --> 00:59:46,467 that’s less to enrich countries so UBI would need to be much 1500 00:59:46,467 --> 00:59:49,600 so UBI would need to be much larger. 1501 00:59:51,167 --> 00:59:51,899 There’s still questions coming 1502 00:59:51,899 --> 00:59:54,266 There’s still questions coming in, but I but I think we have 1503 00:59:54,266 --> 00:59:55,833 in, but I but I think we have exhausted um uh your time and 1504 00:59:55,833 --> 00:59:57,633 exhausted um uh your time and you’ve been very generous and 1505 00:59:57,633 --> 00:59:58,600 you’ve been very generous and we started unfortunately a 1506 00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,699 we started unfortunately a little bit late but we over 1507 01:00:00,699 --> 01:00:03,234 little bit late but we over spent our time but budgets so 1508 01:00:03,234 --> 01:00:05,867 spent our time but budgets so let me really thank you very 1509 01:00:05,867 --> 01:00:07,767 let me really thank you very much. um it’s to the floor for 1510 01:00:07,767 --> 01:00:10,400 much. um it’s to the floor for this um very inspiring um 1511 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:11,666 this um very inspiring um presentation. I think I speak 1512 01:00:11,666 --> 01:00:13,666 presentation. I think I speak also on behalf of of the 1513 01:00:13,666 --> 01:00:15,200 also on behalf of of the audience. Lots of them actually 1514 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:16,933 audience. Lots of them actually write a road here uh very 1515 01:00:16,933 --> 01:00:18,133 write a road here uh very inspiring speech. So so this 1516 01:00:18,133 --> 01:00:22,167 inspiring speech. So so this was really great and thank. 1517 01:00:50,334 --> 01:00:51,701 Strange very special because it 1518 01:00:51,701 --> 01:00:53,400 Strange very special because it was all online with all the 1519 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:54,467 was all online with all the good things that go with it, 1520 01:00:54,467 --> 01:00:55,933 good things that go with it, but also with the bad things 1521 01:00:55,933 --> 01:00:57,034 but also with the bad things that go with it. The good 1522 01:00:57,034 --> 01:00:58,667 that go with it. The good things being that we can easily 1523 01:00:58,667 --> 01:01:00,867 things being that we can easily have someone from the US or 1524 01:01:00,867 --> 01:01:02,900 have someone from the US or from Singapore from China. 1525 01:01:02,900 --> 01:01:04,700 from Singapore from China. Speaking in the same panel, the 1526 01:01:04,700 --> 01:01:06,467 Speaking in the same panel, the bad thing is that I actually 1527 01:01:06,467 --> 01:01:08,833 bad thing is that I actually for once still uh enjoy very 1528 01:01:08,833 --> 01:01:10,267 for once still uh enjoy very much the bilateral 1529 01:01:10,267 --> 01:01:11,799 much the bilateral conversation, the coffee um the 1530 01:01:11,799 --> 01:01:14,267 conversation, the coffee um the sharing of ideas in a more uh 1531 01:01:14,267 --> 01:01:15,900 sharing of ideas in a more uh form of informal personal 1532 01:01:15,900 --> 01:01:17,201 form of informal personal setting, and I very much hope 1533 01:01:17,201 --> 01:01:18,699 setting, and I very much hope that this will come back um 1534 01:01:18,699 --> 01:01:20,433 that this will come back um perhaps in a years time at our 1535 01:01:20,433 --> 01:01:21,600 perhaps in a years time at our next annual meeting. so thank 1536 01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,966 next annual meeting. so thank you so much. Thank you to all 1537 01:01:23,966 --> 01:01:26,300 you so much. Thank you to all of you. It’s been a great to 1538 01:01:26,300 --> 01:01:27,966 of you. It’s been a great to have you and until next time. 1539 01:01:27,966 --> 01:01:32,967 have you and until next time. Bye bye. Thank you. thank you.