1 00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:06,267 I see the same path 2 00:01:12,767 --> 00:01:19,400 on the rest of the statics on 3 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,466 on the rest of the statics on that. with people since I’m not 4 00:01:22,466 --> 00:01:30,499 that. with people since I’m not on it’s been in the CNN. don’t 5 00:01:30,499 --> 00:01:34,933 on it’s been in the CNN. don’t be afraid of it. anche da 6 00:01:34,933 --> 00:01:35,534 be afraid of it. anche da un’operazione molto grande però 7 00:01:35,534 --> 00:01:37,866 un’operazione molto grande però come sempre veneziani noi che 8 00:01:37,866 --> 00:01:39,500 come sempre veneziani noi che ormai siamo nati con l’acqua 9 00:01:39,500 --> 00:01:41,467 ormai siamo nati con l’acqua alta. Viviamo. Ci conviviamo. 10 00:01:41,467 --> 00:01:43,033 alta. Viviamo. Ci conviviamo. Abbiamo passato anche 11 00:01:43,033 --> 00:01:43,800 Abbiamo passato anche quest’olio. Abbiamo sopportiamo 12 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,000 quest’olio. Abbiamo sopportiamo tutta. Su un cambio climatico. 13 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,499 tutta. Su un cambio climatico. Qui il problema grosso è solo 14 00:01:47,499 --> 00:01:53,000 Qui il problema grosso è solo la burocrazia. Il si 15 00:01:56,567 --> 00:01:59,700 positive 16 00:02:03,066 --> 00:02:06,100 space. 17 00:02:06,500 --> 00:02:09,600 Solo round 18 00:02:46,134 --> 00:02:47,533 changer leur perception de la 19 00:02:47,533 --> 00:02:51,601 changer leur perception de la vie et tant que les gens ils ne 20 00:02:51,601 --> 00:02:52,567 vie et tant que les gens ils ne regarderont pas plus devant ça 21 00:02:52,567 --> 00:02:55,733 regarderont pas plus devant ça changera 22 00:03:15,766 --> 00:03:19,000 pas. Ou il y a le temps 23 00:03:19,367 --> 00:03:21,200 Aid of 8000 heroes uh for those 24 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,433 Aid of 8000 heroes uh for those who want to buy a new electric 25 00:03:23,433 --> 00:03:24,533 who want to buy a new electric car, for example, so this is 26 00:03:24,533 --> 00:03:26,066 car, for example, so this is like a very concrete example 27 00:03:26,066 --> 00:03:28,301 like a very concrete example that we don’t want to give out 28 00:03:28,301 --> 00:03:29,567 that we don’t want to give out just money like that, but we 29 00:03:29,567 --> 00:03:32,300 just money like that, but we linked it to uh ecological uh 30 00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:38,300 linked it to uh ecological uh criteria the smallest of this 31 00:03:38,733 --> 00:03:43,266 uh the the the hospital or the 32 00:03:43,266 --> 00:03:50,534 uh the the the hospital or the local. Yeah you do. 33 00:03:51,033 --> 00:03:52,667 euh, veut vraiment se tourner 34 00:03:52,667 --> 00:03:54,899 euh, veut vraiment se tourner vers encore plus de local et 35 00:03:54,899 --> 00:03:56,634 vers encore plus de local et donc ce sont des produits euh, 36 00:03:56,634 --> 00:03:58,333 donc ce sont des produits euh, avec euh, qui qui sont un peu 37 00:03:58,333 --> 00:03:59,133 avec euh, qui qui sont un peu un peu plus chers hein, 38 00:03:59,133 --> 00:04:00,767 un peu plus chers hein, forcément puisqu’ils sont 39 00:04:00,767 --> 00:04:01,867 forcément puisqu’ils sont produits ici localement et on a 40 00:04:01,867 --> 00:04:03,333 produits ici localement et on a la deuxième partie de 41 00:04:03,333 --> 00:04:04,267 la deuxième partie de population qui elle n’a 42 00:04:04,267 --> 00:04:06,000 population qui elle n’a toujours pas et peut-être a 43 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,566 toujours pas et peut-être a même perdu du pouvoir d’achat 44 00:04:07,566 --> 00:04:09,333 même perdu du pouvoir d’achat qui elle cherchera toujours les 45 00:04:09,333 --> 00:04:10,700 qui elle cherchera toujours les prix et euh, toujours voilà le 46 00:04:10,700 --> 00:04:14,233 prix et euh, toujours voilà le moins cher de chez 47 00:04:15,367 --> 00:04:18,933 moins cher de chez moins cher. 48 00:05:15,267 --> 00:05:16,666 Hello everyone. my name is 49 00:05:16,666 --> 00:05:19,801 Hello everyone. my name is Simon. I’m a energy and climate 50 00:05:19,801 --> 00:05:23,699 Simon. I’m a energy and climate fellow and today I am delighted 51 00:05:23,699 --> 00:05:27,800 fellow and today I am delighted to moderate this session of uh 52 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,367 to moderate this session of uh our annual meetings devoted to 53 00:05:30,367 --> 00:05:35,600 our annual meetings devoted to the issue of uh green recovery 54 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:36,933 the issue of uh green recovery yesterday in the first day of 55 00:05:36,933 --> 00:05:39,734 yesterday in the first day of our annual meetings, we had the 56 00:05:39,734 --> 00:05:42,700 our annual meetings, we had the opportunity to hear from France 57 00:05:42,700 --> 00:05:46,234 opportunity to hear from France and Timmerman about. Issue of 58 00:05:46,234 --> 00:05:48,634 and Timmerman about. Issue of recovery about the intentions 59 00:05:48,634 --> 00:05:52,401 recovery about the intentions of the European Commission of 60 00:05:52,401 --> 00:05:55,400 of the European Commission of doubling down as he said on the 61 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,233 doubling down as he said on the green deal in the past of the 62 00:05:59,233 --> 00:06:01,600 green deal in the past of the face about the need to 63 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,767 face about the need to reconcile the short term 64 00:06:04,767 --> 00:06:08,233 reconcile the short term economic impact we need from 65 00:06:08,233 --> 00:06:11,267 economic impact we need from the recovery plans to long-term 66 00:06:11,267 --> 00:06:13,967 the recovery plans to long-term climate goals and therefore 67 00:06:13,967 --> 00:06:15,734 climate goals and therefore building also what we listen to 68 00:06:15,734 --> 00:06:18,767 building also what we listen to yesterday, which uh you can. 69 00:06:18,767 --> 00:06:21,434 yesterday, which uh you can. So, you know our website if you 70 00:06:21,434 --> 00:06:23,800 So, you know our website if you missed it we today dig a little 71 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,766 missed it we today dig a little bit into the uh let’s say more 72 00:06:26,766 --> 00:06:29,766 bit into the uh let’s say more technicalities of recovery to 73 00:06:29,766 --> 00:06:33,233 technicalities of recovery to understand the if and how 74 00:06:33,233 --> 00:06:35,233 understand the if and how greeting recovery is feasible 75 00:06:35,233 --> 00:06:37,766 greeting recovery is feasible over the last month we have 76 00:06:37,766 --> 00:06:42,800 over the last month we have indeed assisted to uh building 77 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,233 indeed assisted to uh building political momentum on 78 00:06:44,233 --> 00:06:46,834 political momentum on delivering a post in nineteen 79 00:06:46,834 --> 00:06:50,600 delivering a post in nineteen green. green recovery. 80 00:07:20,967 --> 00:07:21,900 That the Greening the company 81 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:25,267 That the Greening the company also has trade-offs as we said 82 00:07:25,267 --> 00:07:28,867 also has trade-offs as we said there are short term needs to 83 00:07:28,867 --> 00:07:31,699 there are short term needs to push growth to create jobs, 84 00:07:31,699 --> 00:07:34,900 push growth to create jobs, which might seems from time to 85 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:36,733 which might seems from time to time to be alive, but also 86 00:07:36,733 --> 00:07:39,733 time to be alive, but also conflicting with more long 87 00:07:39,733 --> 00:07:41,300 conflicting with more long objectives such as the 88 00:07:41,300 --> 00:07:43,967 objectives such as the capitalization so it should be 89 00:07:43,967 --> 00:07:47,633 capitalization so it should be uh the policy should be very 90 00:07:47,633 --> 00:07:49,467 uh the policy should be very carefully crafted and this is 91 00:07:49,467 --> 00:07:52,734 carefully crafted and this is what. Are going to discuss 92 00:07:52,734 --> 00:07:55,367 what. Are going to discuss today with our distinguished 93 00:07:55,367 --> 00:07:59,166 today with our distinguished panel that will help us all to 94 00:07:59,166 --> 00:08:01,767 panel that will help us all to navigate this uncharted waters 95 00:08:01,767 --> 00:08:03,801 navigate this uncharted waters The panel is composed by 96 00:08:03,801 --> 00:08:06,133 The panel is composed by Samantha Smith, the director of 97 00:08:06,133 --> 00:08:07,933 Samantha Smith, the director of the just Transition center at 98 00:08:07,933 --> 00:08:10,300 the just Transition center at the International Trade Union 99 00:08:10,300 --> 00:08:13,934 the International Trade Union Confederation by Barba Fray, 100 00:08:13,934 --> 00:08:18,400 Confederation by Barba Fray, the executive vice president of 101 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,333 the executive vice president of Stephen Frees the Economist of 102 00:08:22,333 --> 00:08:24,700 Stephen Frees the Economist of Shell and give that senior 103 00:08:24,700 --> 00:08:28,800 Shell and give that senior fellow at before starting our 104 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,400 fellow at before starting our panel, let me provide you some 105 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,500 panel, let me provide you some housekeeping remarks uh first 106 00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:35,966 housekeeping remarks uh first of all we will have a round of 107 00:08:35,966 --> 00:08:37,267 of all we will have a round of interventions and the kick-off 108 00:08:37,267 --> 00:08:39,267 interventions and the kick-off kickoff messages from our 109 00:08:39,267 --> 00:08:42,200 kickoff messages from our panels. We will then move into 110 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,100 panels. We will then move into a question and answers session 111 00:08:45,100 --> 00:08:47,400 a question and answers session of course in this virtual 112 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:48,033 of course in this virtual environment that we try to do 113 00:08:48,033 --> 00:08:50,399 environment that we try to do our best to engage with our 114 00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:51,534 our best to engage with our audience. We have follows all 115 00:08:51,534 --> 00:08:54,400 audience. We have follows all of you uh if you want. To pose 116 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,234 of you uh if you want. To pose a question just go to line up 117 00:08:57,234 --> 00:09:00,734 a question just go to line up and uh with the code, the bum 118 00:09:00,734 --> 00:09:02,201 and uh with the code, the bum twenty feel free to ask 119 00:09:02,201 --> 00:09:04,767 twenty feel free to ask whatever question you have to 120 00:09:04,767 --> 00:09:07,634 whatever question you have to our always in you can also 121 00:09:07,634 --> 00:09:10,766 our always in you can also access a poll We created to 122 00:09:10,766 --> 00:09:13,433 access a poll We created to also hear your voice on this 123 00:09:13,433 --> 00:09:15,700 also hear your voice on this critical issue and the question 124 00:09:15,700 --> 00:09:18,167 critical issue and the question that we post you is the 125 00:09:18,167 --> 00:09:20,066 that we post you is the following. what is the best 126 00:09:20,066 --> 00:09:21,533 following. what is the best policy tool to deliver a great 127 00:09:21,533 --> 00:09:22,467 policy tool to deliver a great recovery? You have three 128 00:09:22,467 --> 00:09:24,767 recovery? You have three options. Green Investments 129 00:09:24,767 --> 00:09:27,334 options. Green Investments Green conventional to stay and 130 00:09:27,334 --> 00:09:29,667 Green conventional to stay and carbon pricing feel free to 131 00:09:29,667 --> 00:09:32,200 carbon pricing feel free to pick your preferred option We 132 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,000 pick your preferred option We will discuss the results of 133 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,233 will discuss the results of this poll at the end of the 134 00:09:35,233 --> 00:09:38,800 this poll at the end of the panel with our speakers without 135 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,667 panel with our speakers without uh much further ado I would the 136 00:09:41,667 --> 00:09:44,234 uh much further ado I would the immediate return to Steven 137 00:09:44,234 --> 00:09:46,767 immediate return to Steven asking you Steven. What’s your 138 00:09:46,767 --> 00:09:49,033 asking you Steven. What’s your take on the political economy 139 00:09:49,033 --> 00:09:51,633 take on the political economy of green recovery? Steven The 140 00:09:51,633 --> 00:09:52,866 of green recovery? Steven The floor is yours thanks very 141 00:09:52,866 --> 00:09:56,400 floor is yours thanks very much. And uh thanks to for the 142 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,699 much. And uh thanks to for the for the opportunity to uh to 143 00:09:58,699 --> 00:10:01,900 for the opportunity to uh to participate in this important 144 00:10:01,900 --> 00:10:03,267 participate in this important discussion. so you’ve asked 145 00:10:03,267 --> 00:10:05,667 discussion. so you’ve asked about the um the green 146 00:10:05,667 --> 00:10:06,833 about the um the green recovery. so let me begin with 147 00:10:06,833 --> 00:10:09,299 recovery. so let me begin with the recovery first and then 148 00:10:09,299 --> 00:10:11,167 the recovery first and then turn to the to the green 149 00:10:11,167 --> 00:10:14,800 turn to the to the green elements and explore as you 150 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,199 elements and explore as you rightly say where the interest 151 00:10:16,199 --> 00:10:21,233 rightly say where the interest in the two um a very strongly 152 00:10:21,233 --> 00:10:23,333 in the two um a very strongly so clearly um we’re currently 153 00:10:23,333 --> 00:10:26,734 so clearly um we’re currently at uh at a juncture in the um 154 00:10:26,734 --> 00:10:28,000 at uh at a juncture in the um in the current economic crisis 155 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,300 in the current economic crisis where the. Emergency responses 156 00:10:32,300 --> 00:10:35,201 where the. Emergency responses to the public health and 157 00:10:35,201 --> 00:10:37,800 to the public health and economic crisis are giving away 158 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,666 economic crisis are giving away increasingly to um to recovery 159 00:10:40,666 --> 00:10:43,301 increasingly to um to recovery that looks more typical of of 160 00:10:43,301 --> 00:10:46,767 that looks more typical of of other recessions and recoveries 161 00:10:46,767 --> 00:10:48,099 other recessions and recoveries We’re seeing incomplete bounce 162 00:10:48,099 --> 00:10:50,000 We’re seeing incomplete bounce backs from the deep uh lock 163 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,400 backs from the deep uh lock down troughs and they’re 164 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,266 down troughs and they’re beginning to reveal some of the 165 00:10:54,266 --> 00:10:56,500 beginning to reveal some of the the the permanent enduring 166 00:10:56,500 --> 00:10:58,433 the the permanent enduring structural consequences of of 167 00:10:58,433 --> 00:11:01,900 structural consequences of of the. Particularly in consumer 168 00:11:01,900 --> 00:11:05,000 the. Particularly in consumer facing sectors um and sectors 169 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,867 facing sectors um and sectors of shared public services so 170 00:11:07,867 --> 00:11:09,067 of shared public services so the challenge in the next phase 171 00:11:09,067 --> 00:11:11,201 the challenge in the next phase of the recovery is to continue 172 00:11:11,201 --> 00:11:15,167 of the recovery is to continue to minimize these scars begin 173 00:11:15,167 --> 00:11:16,300 to minimize these scars begin reallocating resources that are 174 00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:18,867 reallocating resources that are needed to get us back to 175 00:11:18,867 --> 00:11:20,900 needed to get us back to potential output and to support 176 00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:22,634 potential output and to support demands, spending and 177 00:11:22,634 --> 00:11:25,867 demands, spending and investment um uh towards 178 00:11:25,867 --> 00:11:27,867 investment um uh towards sustainable growth. um so 179 00:11:27,867 --> 00:11:32,167 sustainable growth. um so we’re. Reaching a point in the 180 00:11:32,167 --> 00:11:35,334 we’re. Reaching a point in the crisis and recovery where the 181 00:11:35,334 --> 00:11:36,700 crisis and recovery where the green elements are going to 182 00:11:36,700 --> 00:11:40,367 green elements are going to become increasingly important. 183 00:11:40,367 --> 00:11:42,333 become increasingly important. um this this investment 184 00:11:42,333 --> 00:11:44,600 um this this investment spending um in in the recovery 185 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,334 spending um in in the recovery and resource allocation must be 186 00:11:47,334 --> 00:11:48,899 and resource allocation must be able to reason to really 187 00:11:48,899 --> 00:11:50,133 able to reason to really quickly create jobs for the 188 00:11:50,133 --> 00:11:52,699 quickly create jobs for the unemployed and to direct 189 00:11:52,699 --> 00:11:54,333 unemployed and to direct resources increasingly toward 190 00:11:54,333 --> 00:11:56,300 resources increasingly toward sectors that are expected to 191 00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:57,533 sectors that are expected to grow in the long run and there 192 00:11:57,533 --> 00:12:00,233 grow in the long run and there are two long. Drivers that are 193 00:12:00,233 --> 00:12:02,733 are two long. Drivers that are important to bear in mind in 194 00:12:02,733 --> 00:12:05,234 important to bear in mind in structuring the next wave of 195 00:12:05,234 --> 00:12:06,900 structuring the next wave of recovery supports one of the 196 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:08,367 recovery supports one of the enduring structural changes 197 00:12:08,367 --> 00:12:10,799 enduring structural changes from the pandemic and of 198 00:12:10,799 --> 00:12:12,266 from the pandemic and of course, the author of the 199 00:12:12,266 --> 00:12:15,866 course, the author of the unchanged imperatives for the 200 00:12:15,866 --> 00:12:17,334 unchanged imperatives for the coronation, um so the 201 00:12:17,334 --> 00:12:18,634 coronation, um so the timeliness of investment 202 00:12:18,634 --> 00:12:22,234 timeliness of investment spending, it’s material scale 203 00:12:22,234 --> 00:12:23,967 spending, it’s material scale and it’s sustainable direction 204 00:12:23,967 --> 00:12:26,467 and it’s sustainable direction of resource relocations are all 205 00:12:26,467 --> 00:12:28,634 of resource relocations are all key to greening the recovery so 206 00:12:28,634 --> 00:12:30,799 key to greening the recovery so now. Give you some concrete 207 00:12:30,799 --> 00:12:34,133 now. Give you some concrete examples in each of the main 208 00:12:34,133 --> 00:12:37,301 examples in each of the main energy sectors where there are 209 00:12:37,301 --> 00:12:39,833 energy sectors where there are opportunities for meaningful 210 00:12:39,833 --> 00:12:42,233 opportunities for meaningful reading the recovery and let me 211 00:12:42,233 --> 00:12:43,300 reading the recovery and let me begin with the building sector 212 00:12:43,300 --> 00:12:46,267 begin with the building sector and here on in an incredibly 213 00:12:46,267 --> 00:12:46,867 and here on in an incredibly strong agreement with what 214 00:12:46,867 --> 00:12:50,200 strong agreement with what France Timmerman had to say 215 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,967 France Timmerman had to say yesterday. So if you look 216 00:12:51,967 --> 00:12:55,867 yesterday. So if you look carefully at the nature of the 217 00:12:55,867 --> 00:12:57,500 carefully at the nature of the enduring consequences of the 218 00:12:57,500 --> 00:12:58,533 enduring consequences of the pandemic. pandemic and it’s 219 00:12:58,533 --> 00:13:01,667 pandemic. pandemic and it’s imp. For changing the way we 220 00:13:01,667 --> 00:13:04,099 imp. For changing the way we work the way we’re meeting 221 00:13:04,099 --> 00:13:06,934 work the way we’re meeting today the way where we choose 222 00:13:06,934 --> 00:13:08,767 today the way where we choose to live and how we choose to 223 00:13:08,767 --> 00:13:11,533 to live and how we choose to shop and consume services all 224 00:13:11,533 --> 00:13:16,133 shop and consume services all of these things are going to um 225 00:13:16,133 --> 00:13:17,733 of these things are going to um to change and these are really 226 00:13:17,733 --> 00:13:19,567 to change and these are really accelerations of trends that 227 00:13:19,567 --> 00:13:21,767 accelerations of trends that are under way from from the 228 00:13:21,767 --> 00:13:24,199 are under way from from the digitalization of the economy 229 00:13:24,199 --> 00:13:26,866 digitalization of the economy And in this context, I think 230 00:13:26,866 --> 00:13:27,967 And in this context, I think many buildings are likely to be 231 00:13:27,967 --> 00:13:31,200 many buildings are likely to be need to be re purpose. In the 232 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,800 need to be re purpose. In the recovery um to reinforce the 233 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,500 recovery um to reinforce the structural change in the 234 00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:37,667 structural change in the reallocation of resources and 235 00:13:37,667 --> 00:13:40,233 reallocation of resources and it’s vitally important as these 236 00:13:40,233 --> 00:13:42,933 it’s vitally important as these buildings are repurposed and 237 00:13:42,933 --> 00:13:44,201 buildings are repurposed and refurbished that they’re also 238 00:13:44,201 --> 00:13:46,166 refurbished that they’re also um become green buildings in 239 00:13:46,166 --> 00:13:47,233 um become green buildings in the process. We know that these 240 00:13:47,233 --> 00:13:49,667 the process. We know that these are critical opportunities for 241 00:13:49,667 --> 00:13:52,400 are critical opportunities for the transformation of the built 242 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:53,900 the transformation of the built environment. Um so I think this 243 00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:55,734 environment. Um so I think this if I were to put at the top of 244 00:13:55,734 --> 00:13:57,600 if I were to put at the top of my list, whether it’s a win-win 245 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,734 my list, whether it’s a win-win between and recovery um. 246 00:14:01,734 --> 00:14:03,800 between and recovery um. Accelerating uh us back to full 247 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,900 Accelerating uh us back to full employment. I think this is is 248 00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:08,400 employment. I think this is is clearly one area to focus and 249 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:09,967 clearly one area to focus and how can you do this? Of course 250 00:14:09,967 --> 00:14:11,267 how can you do this? Of course you can do it through 251 00:14:11,267 --> 00:14:12,866 you can do it through government public investments 252 00:14:12,866 --> 00:14:14,400 government public investments in government buildings, 253 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,567 in government buildings, including social housing as 254 00:14:16,567 --> 00:14:18,267 including social housing as well as time bound physical 255 00:14:18,267 --> 00:14:19,334 well as time bound physical incentives for the private 256 00:14:19,334 --> 00:14:21,801 incentives for the private sector to invest in in green in 257 00:14:21,801 --> 00:14:24,467 sector to invest in in green in their buildings, but you can 258 00:14:24,467 --> 00:14:26,301 their buildings, but you can also look at other examples and 259 00:14:26,301 --> 00:14:28,767 also look at other examples and in other sectors in electric 260 00:14:28,767 --> 00:14:30,166 in other sectors in electric power. For example, there’s 261 00:14:30,166 --> 00:14:32,833 power. For example, there’s clearly scope. To build up 262 00:14:32,833 --> 00:14:34,900 clearly scope. To build up power grids um particularly to 263 00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:37,200 power grids um particularly to reach renewable rich regions, 264 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,334 reach renewable rich regions, be offshore in Europe or the 265 00:14:40,334 --> 00:14:43,000 be offshore in Europe or the interior regions in China um 266 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,600 interior regions in China um and also to invest in upgrading 267 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:46,900 and also to invest in upgrading infrastructures integrate more 268 00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:48,367 infrastructures integrate more effectively both variable 269 00:14:48,367 --> 00:14:49,933 effectively both variable renewables and they’re 270 00:14:49,933 --> 00:14:52,733 renewables and they’re complementary flexibility 271 00:14:52,733 --> 00:14:53,600 complementary flexibility technologies. So I think this 272 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,734 technologies. So I think this is another clear area for um a 273 00:14:58,734 --> 00:14:59,267 is another clear area for um a prioritization of investment 274 00:14:59,267 --> 00:15:00,834 prioritization of investment spending. and of course we know 275 00:15:00,834 --> 00:15:02,466 spending. and of course we know in this macroeconomic 276 00:15:02,466 --> 00:15:05,634 in this macroeconomic consequences that the spending. 277 00:15:05,634 --> 00:15:07,334 consequences that the spending. Multiplier from uh particularly 278 00:15:07,334 --> 00:15:09,733 Multiplier from uh particularly spending on investments or but 279 00:15:09,733 --> 00:15:11,366 spending on investments or but strong you can capitalize 280 00:15:11,366 --> 00:15:12,767 strong you can capitalize significant other private 281 00:15:12,767 --> 00:15:14,467 significant other private investment and you’re also re 282 00:15:14,467 --> 00:15:17,066 investment and you’re also re orienting the economy towards 283 00:15:17,066 --> 00:15:20,400 orienting the economy towards um it’s long run growth 284 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:21,934 um it’s long run growth potential. you can look in the 285 00:15:21,934 --> 00:15:22,500 potential. you can look in the transport sector in here. I 286 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:24,733 transport sector in here. I think the story is a bit more 287 00:15:24,733 --> 00:15:27,467 think the story is a bit more complicated clearly um uh the 288 00:15:27,467 --> 00:15:28,800 complicated clearly um uh the automobile industry is 289 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,233 automobile industry is accelerated very rapidly. It’s 290 00:15:30,233 --> 00:15:32,467 accelerated very rapidly. It’s capacity to produce battery 291 00:15:32,467 --> 00:15:33,966 capacity to produce battery electric and alternative drive 292 00:15:33,966 --> 00:15:37,300 electric and alternative drive train vehicles um but the SS. 293 00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:38,833 train vehicles um but the SS. Bumping up against I would say 294 00:15:38,833 --> 00:15:40,301 Bumping up against I would say it’s it’s short run capacity 295 00:15:40,301 --> 00:15:42,734 it’s it’s short run capacity constraints and how much more 296 00:15:42,734 --> 00:15:46,600 constraints and how much more we can accelerate this 297 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,467 we can accelerate this development. It’s simply at 298 00:15:48,467 --> 00:15:50,700 development. It’s simply at least in the context of of the 299 00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:52,099 least in the context of of the recovery horizon certainly in 300 00:15:52,099 --> 00:15:54,633 recovery horizon certainly in the longer run, there’s 301 00:15:54,633 --> 00:15:56,334 the longer run, there’s significant um but in the 302 00:15:56,334 --> 00:15:57,634 significant um but in the transport sector there might be 303 00:15:57,634 --> 00:16:00,099 transport sector there might be for example, greater potential 304 00:16:00,099 --> 00:16:03,799 for example, greater potential to um uh focus investment on 305 00:16:03,799 --> 00:16:05,333 to um uh focus investment on expanding the charging 306 00:16:05,333 --> 00:16:05,933 expanding the charging infrastructure for battery 307 00:16:05,933 --> 00:16:07,967 infrastructure for battery electric vehicles that lowers 308 00:16:07,967 --> 00:16:09,299 electric vehicles that lowers the switching costs for 309 00:16:09,299 --> 00:16:13,699 the switching costs for customers as um as. For 310 00:16:13,699 --> 00:16:15,967 customers as um as. For alternative drivetrain vehicles 311 00:16:15,967 --> 00:16:17,867 alternative drivetrain vehicles expands and then lastly, let me 312 00:16:17,867 --> 00:16:21,767 expands and then lastly, let me touch on the industrial sector 313 00:16:21,767 --> 00:16:26,000 touch on the industrial sector and um uh here I think the an 314 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,633 and um uh here I think the an important focus would be 315 00:16:27,633 --> 00:16:29,133 important focus would be looking where you can have 316 00:16:29,133 --> 00:16:29,967 looking where you can have significant demonstration 317 00:16:29,967 --> 00:16:33,200 significant demonstration projects, for example, um 318 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,767 projects, for example, um material demonstration projects 319 00:16:34,767 --> 00:16:37,200 material demonstration projects in the production of clean 320 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,800 in the production of clean hydrogen or indeed in 321 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,767 hydrogen or indeed in accelerating investment in CUS 322 00:16:42,767 --> 00:16:44,133 accelerating investment in CUS infrastructures, particularly 323 00:16:44,133 --> 00:16:46,699 infrastructures, particularly in industrial cluster. For 324 00:16:46,699 --> 00:16:48,533 in industrial cluster. For example, in northeast England 325 00:16:48,533 --> 00:16:53,733 example, in northeast England or Rotterdam uh in in in Europe 326 00:16:53,733 --> 00:16:56,400 or Rotterdam uh in in in Europe um and I think there’s again a 327 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,900 um and I think there’s again a potential for a win where these 328 00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:03,534 potential for a win where these projects are well in advance in 329 00:17:03,534 --> 00:17:05,634 projects are well in advance in preparation and the scope for 330 00:17:05,634 --> 00:17:07,633 preparation and the scope for implementation and acceleration 331 00:17:07,633 --> 00:17:09,667 implementation and acceleration in the context of of the 332 00:17:09,667 --> 00:17:11,667 in the context of of the current recovery. So hopefully 333 00:17:11,667 --> 00:17:14,699 current recovery. So hopefully these are some um concrete and 334 00:17:14,699 --> 00:17:16,333 these are some um concrete and practical examples of how we 335 00:17:16,333 --> 00:17:18,833 practical examples of how we can bring the recovery 336 00:17:18,833 --> 00:17:21,134 can bring the recovery primarily through. Acceleration 337 00:17:21,134 --> 00:17:23,333 primarily through. Acceleration of public and private 338 00:17:23,333 --> 00:17:24,767 of public and private investment in transforming the 339 00:17:24,767 --> 00:17:27,300 investment in transforming the capital stock um these are 340 00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:29,167 capital stock um these are clearly the right directions um 341 00:17:29,167 --> 00:17:32,767 clearly the right directions um at the at the right time um of 342 00:17:32,767 --> 00:17:34,300 at the at the right time um of both in terms of the recovery 343 00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:37,299 both in terms of the recovery and the climate imperatives um 344 00:17:37,299 --> 00:17:39,500 and the climate imperatives um uh but clearly there’s more to 345 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:42,167 uh but clearly there’s more to do um both in green individual 346 00:17:42,167 --> 00:17:45,333 do um both in green individual country ambitions and having a 347 00:17:45,333 --> 00:17:47,167 country ambitions and having a really strong. that’s a sharp 348 00:17:47,167 --> 00:17:49,000 really strong. that’s a sharp focus on implementation and of 349 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,467 focus on implementation and of course all of this. To be done 350 00:17:51,467 --> 00:17:52,834 course all of this. To be done within the usual macro 351 00:17:52,834 --> 00:17:54,000 within the usual macro constraints, particularly 352 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,133 constraints, particularly around physical sustainability, 353 00:17:57,133 --> 00:17:58,399 around physical sustainability, obviously adaptive to to the 354 00:17:58,399 --> 00:17:59,766 obviously adaptive to to the current context. So I think 355 00:17:59,766 --> 00:18:02,166 current context. So I think those are the key points that I 356 00:18:02,166 --> 00:18:03,333 those are the key points that I wanted to share and to say that 357 00:18:03,333 --> 00:18:06,299 wanted to share and to say that we strongly support this 358 00:18:06,299 --> 00:18:08,899 we strongly support this direction of of greeting the 359 00:18:08,899 --> 00:18:11,199 direction of of greeting the economy and appreciate the 360 00:18:11,199 --> 00:18:11,799 economy and appreciate the opportunity to share these 361 00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:14,400 opportunity to share these thoughts on the issue. So thank 362 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,133 thoughts on the issue. So thank you and um I’ll turn the floor 363 00:18:16,133 --> 00:18:18,700 you and um I’ll turn the floor back to you. Thank you. Thank 364 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,367 back to you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Steven for this 365 00:18:21,367 --> 00:18:25,400 you very much. Steven for this very comprehensive view on 366 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,033 very comprehensive view on concrete policy interventions 367 00:18:28,033 --> 00:18:31,233 concrete policy interventions that can be undertaken to 368 00:18:31,233 --> 00:18:32,733 that can be undertaken to deliver a great recovery 369 00:18:32,733 --> 00:18:35,800 deliver a great recovery buildings uh power grids 370 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,266 buildings uh power grids charging infrastructure for 371 00:18:37,266 --> 00:18:39,267 charging infrastructure for electric vehicles because uh 372 00:18:39,267 --> 00:18:41,066 electric vehicles because uh industrial sector demonstration 373 00:18:41,066 --> 00:18:42,400 industrial sector demonstration projects coming from hydrogen 374 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,834 projects coming from hydrogen to CUS are indeed um the key 375 00:18:47,834 --> 00:18:51,267 to CUS are indeed um the key components of our. Uh 376 00:18:51,267 --> 00:18:53,933 components of our. Uh discussion uh this month now it 377 00:18:53,933 --> 00:18:57,200 discussion uh this month now it is uh clear. Also from your 378 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,767 is uh clear. Also from your talk and also what we heard 379 00:18:58,767 --> 00:19:00,433 talk and also what we heard yesterday from uh France 380 00:19:00,433 --> 00:19:03,433 yesterday from uh France timmons that the buildings are 381 00:19:03,433 --> 00:19:06,733 timmons that the buildings are at the center of the attention. 382 00:19:06,733 --> 00:19:07,534 at the center of the attention. everybody’s looking at 383 00:19:07,534 --> 00:19:09,900 everybody’s looking at buildings like the sector in 384 00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:13,433 buildings like the sector in which the green of recovery can 385 00:19:13,433 --> 00:19:16,334 which the green of recovery can really be achieved the uh in 386 00:19:16,334 --> 00:19:18,267 really be achieved the uh in the best uh in the best manner 387 00:19:18,267 --> 00:19:21,967 the best uh in the best manner I will then. 388 00:20:24,234 --> 00:20:26,667 Cici from a holistic point of 389 00:20:26,667 --> 00:20:28,367 Cici from a holistic point of view, rather than from a given 390 00:20:28,367 --> 00:20:30,899 view, rather than from a given just product assets sector 391 00:20:30,899 --> 00:20:31,567 just product assets sector point of view where you look at 392 00:20:31,567 --> 00:20:34,800 point of view where you look at it in an isolated way you 393 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,866 it in an isolated way you already existing technologies 394 00:20:36,866 --> 00:20:37,801 already existing technologies are, however, simply not yet 395 00:20:37,801 --> 00:20:39,500 are, however, simply not yet widely used you can build 396 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:42,766 widely used you can build already today a zero emission 397 00:20:42,766 --> 00:20:43,666 already today a zero emission commercial building, but it has 398 00:20:43,666 --> 00:20:45,801 commercial building, but it has not been on top of the mind of 399 00:20:45,801 --> 00:20:47,301 not been on top of the mind of the investors to look into a 400 00:20:47,301 --> 00:20:49,000 the investors to look into a sustainable CO two emission 401 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,634 sustainable CO two emission reduction plan. However, I’m 402 00:20:50,634 --> 00:20:52,800 reduction plan. However, I’m convinced based on feedbacks. 403 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,200 convinced based on feedbacks. Tweaking the market the 404 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,299 Tweaking the market the decision makers in large 405 00:20:56,299 --> 00:20:57,800 decision makers in large companies take sustainability 406 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,500 companies take sustainability as a priority to ensure a 407 00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:01,967 as a priority to ensure a resilient business. We see this 408 00:21:01,967 --> 00:21:03,467 resilient business. We see this is a confirmation of our 409 00:21:03,467 --> 00:21:04,799 is a confirmation of our strategy of deploying our 410 00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:06,266 strategy of deploying our portfolio as quickly as 411 00:21:06,266 --> 00:21:08,367 portfolio as quickly as possible. once it has reached a 412 00:21:08,367 --> 00:21:09,934 possible. once it has reached a certain level of maturity also 413 00:21:09,934 --> 00:21:12,733 certain level of maturity also on our own assets and 414 00:21:12,733 --> 00:21:13,767 on our own assets and infrastructure. This great for 415 00:21:13,767 --> 00:21:14,500 infrastructure. This great for us of course, additional 416 00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:16,567 us of course, additional learning with regard to our own 417 00:21:16,567 --> 00:21:18,301 learning with regard to our own range of products and services, 418 00:21:18,301 --> 00:21:19,900 range of products and services, but also is giving the 419 00:21:19,900 --> 00:21:21,000 but also is giving the necessary market launch so we 420 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,934 necessary market launch so we are really able. Eat our own 421 00:21:23,934 --> 00:21:27,367 are really able. Eat our own food so in order to anticipate 422 00:21:27,367 --> 00:21:28,999 food so in order to anticipate a positive question, Yes, it’s 423 00:21:28,999 --> 00:21:30,333 a positive question, Yes, it’s sometimes also takes a little 424 00:21:30,333 --> 00:21:31,767 sometimes also takes a little courage to do this kind of 425 00:21:31,767 --> 00:21:34,267 courage to do this kind of things basically digitalization 426 00:21:34,267 --> 00:21:35,433 things basically digitalization to sustainability will not only 427 00:21:35,433 --> 00:21:37,700 to sustainability will not only be the key to be more resilient 428 00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:40,133 be the key to be more resilient and the uh uh an organization. 429 00:21:40,133 --> 00:21:42,234 and the uh uh an organization. They are also the foundation 430 00:21:42,234 --> 00:21:43,833 They are also the foundation from our point of view for 431 00:21:43,833 --> 00:21:45,667 from our point of view for economic and social 432 00:21:45,667 --> 00:21:46,500 economic and social development, which we owe to 433 00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:48,700 development, which we owe to the present and all the future 434 00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:50,299 the present and all the future generations and for us, it is 435 00:21:50,299 --> 00:21:51,767 generations and for us, it is very clear the green deal and 436 00:21:51,767 --> 00:21:54,500 very clear the green deal and the E recovery plan or a 437 00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:55,833 the E recovery plan or a critical opportunity for us now 438 00:21:55,833 --> 00:21:57,467 critical opportunity for us now in Europe, accelerate this so 439 00:21:57,467 --> 00:21:59,933 in Europe, accelerate this so that. Me to your second 440 00:21:59,933 --> 00:22:01,967 that. Me to your second question How should the private 441 00:22:01,967 --> 00:22:03,933 question How should the private and the public interact to 442 00:22:03,933 --> 00:22:04,967 and the public interact to deliver and maybe to worry a 443 00:22:04,967 --> 00:22:07,367 deliver and maybe to worry a little bit more concrete? What 444 00:22:07,367 --> 00:22:08,867 little bit more concrete? What is actually the starting point 445 00:22:08,867 --> 00:22:11,133 is actually the starting point from which the right short-term 446 00:22:11,133 --> 00:22:13,866 from which the right short-term economics are set and we the 447 00:22:13,866 --> 00:22:15,767 economics are set and we the industry can also benefit from 448 00:22:15,767 --> 00:22:18,300 industry can also benefit from them but also and especially 449 00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:19,800 them but also and especially realize the medium and long 450 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,367 realize the medium and long term transformation to 451 00:22:22,367 --> 00:22:23,700 term transformation to accelerate the transition to 452 00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:25,833 accelerate the transition to more sustainable future across 453 00:22:25,833 --> 00:22:26,800 more sustainable future across the board. I see the following 454 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,400 the board. I see the following areas at the focus that we 455 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,799 areas at the focus that we activate. Systemic efficiency 456 00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:33,700 activate. Systemic efficiency first introduce optimization 457 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:35,067 first introduce optimization matches through use energy 458 00:22:35,067 --> 00:22:37,067 matches through use energy demand across industry 459 00:22:37,067 --> 00:22:38,699 demand across industry buildings and transportation, 460 00:22:38,699 --> 00:22:40,133 buildings and transportation, including solutions for heating 461 00:22:40,133 --> 00:22:42,567 including solutions for heating and cooling. This are the great 462 00:22:42,567 --> 00:22:44,700 and cooling. This are the great energy contribute to you in the 463 00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:46,634 energy contribute to you in the building, then accelerate 464 00:22:46,634 --> 00:22:47,733 building, then accelerate electrification of buildings, 465 00:22:47,733 --> 00:22:49,667 electrification of buildings, industry and transport, which 466 00:22:49,667 --> 00:22:50,867 industry and transport, which is powered by clean and 467 00:22:50,867 --> 00:22:54,267 is powered by clean and renewable energy. We need 468 00:22:54,267 --> 00:22:55,767 renewable energy. We need digitalization to enable 469 00:22:55,767 --> 00:22:57,100 digitalization to enable flexible use of infrastructure 470 00:22:57,100 --> 00:23:01,000 flexible use of infrastructure for from a demand and And last, 471 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,400 for from a demand and And last, but not least the circular of 472 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,300 but not least the circular of materials in particular. why do 473 00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:08,867 materials in particular. why do we want this generally Europe 474 00:23:08,867 --> 00:23:10,799 we want this generally Europe is in the middle of the road 475 00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:12,667 is in the middle of the road and we must accelerate the 476 00:23:12,667 --> 00:23:14,567 and we must accelerate the efforts in almost all fields. 477 00:23:14,567 --> 00:23:16,600 efforts in almost all fields. also by enabling the industry 478 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:17,733 also by enabling the industry with dedicated frameworks and 479 00:23:17,733 --> 00:23:20,500 with dedicated frameworks and forces, Europe must play from 480 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:21,600 forces, Europe must play from our point of view a leading 481 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,500 our point of view a leading role here The green deal at its 482 00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:25,000 role here The green deal at its heart is the growth strategy 483 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,700 heart is the growth strategy towards a resilient source, 484 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:27,966 towards a resilient source, sufficient and competitive 485 00:23:27,966 --> 00:23:31,234 sufficient and competitive economy. In Europe we need to 486 00:23:31,234 --> 00:23:33,633 economy. In Europe we need to ensure a great level of 487 00:23:33,633 --> 00:23:34,233 ensure a great level of organization looking at the 488 00:23:34,233 --> 00:23:36,133 organization looking at the organization and 489 00:23:36,133 --> 00:23:37,100 organization and digitalization, so we can see 490 00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:38,400 digitalization, so we can see for instance, Northern Europe 491 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,633 for instance, Northern Europe at advance, generally speaking, 492 00:23:40,633 --> 00:23:42,400 at advance, generally speaking, but even in the leading pack of 493 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,199 but even in the leading pack of the counties, we need stronger 494 00:23:44,199 --> 00:23:47,133 the counties, we need stronger efforts only in the interaction 495 00:23:47,133 --> 00:23:49,934 efforts only in the interaction between Holly and industry lies 496 00:23:49,934 --> 00:23:51,567 between Holly and industry lies the strengths of implementation 497 00:23:51,567 --> 00:23:53,966 the strengths of implementation the political body create the 498 00:23:53,966 --> 00:23:55,467 the political body create the responsible framework and the 499 00:23:55,467 --> 00:23:57,667 responsible framework and the industry demonstrates improves 500 00:23:57,667 --> 00:23:59,199 industry demonstrates improves its strengths by breaking new 501 00:23:59,199 --> 00:24:01,934 its strengths by breaking new grounds and developing its own 502 00:24:01,934 --> 00:24:03,000 grounds and developing its own technologies with the 503 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:03,900 technologies with the corresponding economies of 504 00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:06,434 corresponding economies of scale. Really a key topic for 505 00:24:06,434 --> 00:24:09,700 scale. Really a key topic for Europe we need ambitious policy 506 00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:10,833 Europe we need ambitious policy measures to activate a strong 507 00:24:10,833 --> 00:24:12,767 measures to activate a strong market signal at the economy, 508 00:24:12,767 --> 00:24:15,267 market signal at the economy, and this must accelerate the 509 00:24:15,267 --> 00:24:18,100 and this must accelerate the dehumanization pass most 510 00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:20,201 dehumanization pass most importantly, those policy 511 00:24:20,201 --> 00:24:21,967 importantly, those policy measures must ensure we invest 512 00:24:21,967 --> 00:24:24,300 measures must ensure we invest both in the globalization and 513 00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:25,867 both in the globalization and innovation. This is why we 514 00:24:25,867 --> 00:24:27,333 innovation. This is why we refer so much to systemic 515 00:24:27,333 --> 00:24:28,767 refer so much to systemic efficiency because it allows 516 00:24:28,767 --> 00:24:30,200 efficiency because it allows the economy of scale and 517 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,866 the economy of scale and innovation across the border so 518 00:24:32,866 --> 00:24:34,299 innovation across the border so ambitious target set is 519 00:24:34,299 --> 00:24:36,734 ambitious target set is important from to twenty to 250 520 00:24:36,734 --> 00:24:38,299 important from to twenty to 250 for the CO two reduction, 521 00:24:38,299 --> 00:24:39,867 for the CO two reduction, renewable energy and energy 522 00:24:39,867 --> 00:24:42,267 renewable energy and energy efficiency. The recovery plan 523 00:24:42,267 --> 00:24:44,733 efficiency. The recovery plan needs to prioritize the 524 00:24:44,733 --> 00:24:45,666 needs to prioritize the authorization and 525 00:24:45,666 --> 00:24:47,166 authorization and digitalization at the same 526 00:24:47,166 --> 00:24:48,833 digitalization at the same time. We also need to ensure 527 00:24:48,833 --> 00:24:49,967 time. We also need to ensure that we invest in innovation 528 00:24:49,967 --> 00:24:52,333 that we invest in innovation here in Europe and we need a 529 00:24:52,333 --> 00:24:53,767 here in Europe and we need a sector road map to ensure it’s 530 00:24:53,767 --> 00:24:55,300 sector road map to ensure it’s going to be deployed private 531 00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:57,767 going to be deployed private players shall be for sure part 532 00:24:57,767 --> 00:24:59,466 players shall be for sure part of it and now I’m coming to the 533 00:24:59,466 --> 00:25:02,000 of it and now I’m coming to the same example, like Steven uh 534 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,533 same example, like Steven uh that I like to mention here in 535 00:25:03,533 --> 00:25:06,334 that I like to mention here in its buildings, buildings are 536 00:25:06,334 --> 00:25:08,233 its buildings, buildings are Europe seeing a large anti 537 00:25:08,233 --> 00:25:09,133 Europe seeing a large anti consumer accounting for 538 00:25:09,133 --> 00:25:11,267 consumer accounting for approximately forty. 40% of the 539 00:25:11,267 --> 00:25:13,266 approximately forty. 40% of the energy consumption in Europe, 540 00:25:13,266 --> 00:25:15,933 energy consumption in Europe, our internal. Mats for forecast 541 00:25:15,933 --> 00:25:18,334 our internal. Mats for forecast it also it could go up to 50% 542 00:25:18,334 --> 00:25:20,800 it also it could go up to 50% if we include construction 543 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:21,967 if we include construction industry and it’s upstream 544 00:25:21,967 --> 00:25:24,800 industry and it’s upstream value chain euro has many 545 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,333 value chain euro has many strengths in this area if 546 00:25:26,333 --> 00:25:28,833 strengths in this area if leading local players 547 00:25:28,833 --> 00:25:30,400 leading local players construction industry 548 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,801 construction industry technology providers utilities 549 00:25:31,801 --> 00:25:33,867 technology providers utilities service business and 550 00:25:33,867 --> 00:25:35,300 service business and specialized software companies 551 00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:36,734 specialized software companies covering the whole spectrum of 552 00:25:36,734 --> 00:25:40,634 covering the whole spectrum of the value chain. What to do now 553 00:25:40,634 --> 00:25:42,300 the value chain. What to do now we need to target non 554 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:43,233 we need to target non residential buildings 555 00:25:43,233 --> 00:25:45,567 residential buildings renovation, which represents a 556 00:25:45,567 --> 00:25:46,467 renovation, which represents a high opportunity. We also need 557 00:25:46,467 --> 00:25:49,733 high opportunity. We also need to. Through level of smart, 558 00:25:49,733 --> 00:25:51,167 to. Through level of smart, electrification and the 559 00:25:51,167 --> 00:25:52,767 electrification and the building efficiency that could 560 00:25:52,767 --> 00:25:55,567 building efficiency that could save up to 23000000000 on 561 00:25:55,567 --> 00:25:57,799 save up to 23000000000 on energy bills leading to the net 562 00:25:57,799 --> 00:25:59,334 energy bills leading to the net creation of potentially 563 00:25:59,334 --> 00:26:01,966 creation of potentially 1.8000000 jobs in Europe and we 564 00:26:01,966 --> 00:26:03,333 1.8000000 jobs in Europe and we need to triple the renovation 565 00:26:03,333 --> 00:26:06,800 need to triple the renovation rates to achieve our goals in 566 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,200 rates to achieve our goals in buildings. so from our point of 567 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,167 buildings. so from our point of view, the digital and green 568 00:26:11,167 --> 00:26:12,433 view, the digital and green transformation is the only way 569 00:26:12,433 --> 00:26:14,900 transformation is the only way to stay competitive attract 570 00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:16,600 to stay competitive attract talents and also to stop the 571 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:17,900 talents and also to stop the climate change so that you 572 00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:21,333 climate change so that you your. Economy have the unique 573 00:26:21,333 --> 00:26:22,666 your. Economy have the unique opportunity here to take a 574 00:26:22,666 --> 00:26:23,400 opportunity here to take a leading role in this global 575 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,034 leading role in this global context and um I would like not 576 00:26:27,034 --> 00:26:30,133 context and um I would like not to go into the same dynamics we 577 00:26:30,133 --> 00:26:32,466 to go into the same dynamics we were um in 2008, we never 578 00:26:32,466 --> 00:26:34,334 were um in 2008, we never really recovered of the 2008, 579 00:26:34,334 --> 00:26:35,733 really recovered of the 2008, but I think now we have a 580 00:26:35,733 --> 00:26:36,567 but I think now we have a different thinking in Europe 581 00:26:36,567 --> 00:26:38,833 different thinking in Europe and this is a golden 582 00:26:38,833 --> 00:26:40,666 and this is a golden opportunity to turn around the 583 00:26:40,666 --> 00:26:42,234 opportunity to turn around the effect of the pandemic and not 584 00:26:42,234 --> 00:26:44,000 effect of the pandemic and not become a new offset again for 585 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,666 become a new offset again for you. so thank you looking 586 00:26:46,666 --> 00:26:48,334 you. so thank you looking forward to your comments and 587 00:26:48,334 --> 00:26:52,367 forward to your comments and questions. Thank you. Thank you 588 00:26:52,367 --> 00:26:57,099 questions. Thank you. Thank you for this uh insightful comments 589 00:26:57,099 --> 00:26:59,566 for this uh insightful comments on the issue of of buildings 590 00:26:59,566 --> 00:27:01,367 on the issue of of buildings and their role in their 591 00:27:01,367 --> 00:27:04,233 and their role in their recovery your points on the 592 00:27:04,233 --> 00:27:05,799 recovery your points on the importance to foster the 593 00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:07,367 importance to foster the innovation Wave in Europe are 594 00:27:07,367 --> 00:27:09,667 innovation Wave in Europe are very well taken and I think and 595 00:27:09,667 --> 00:27:11,266 very well taken and I think and uh thank you also for 596 00:27:11,266 --> 00:27:15,400 uh thank you also for mentioning the uh parallelism 597 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,534 mentioning the uh parallelism with what happened after the 598 00:27:16,534 --> 00:27:19,234 with what happened after the great financial crisis in 2008, 599 00:27:19,234 --> 00:27:21,899 great financial crisis in 2008, because maybe we can come back 600 00:27:21,899 --> 00:27:23,400 because maybe we can come back later to this point during the 601 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:24,934 later to this point during the debate, but certainly there 602 00:27:24,934 --> 00:27:28,467 debate, but certainly there are. Learn that we can use this 603 00:27:28,467 --> 00:27:31,500 are. Learn that we can use this time from that experience since 604 00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:33,801 time from that experience since uh green recovery was also back 605 00:27:33,801 --> 00:27:37,100 uh green recovery was also back in time UH II on the agenda, 606 00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:39,334 in time UH II on the agenda, but maybe uh the result was not 607 00:27:39,334 --> 00:27:41,699 but maybe uh the result was not really uh successful back then 608 00:27:41,699 --> 00:27:42,799 really uh successful back then so the situation is very 609 00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:45,534 so the situation is very different. uh uh and so many 610 00:27:45,534 --> 00:27:47,800 different. uh uh and so many different aspects but certainly 611 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,767 different aspects but certainly some lessons learned from that 612 00:27:49,767 --> 00:27:52,933 some lessons learned from that uh that could be useful uh 613 00:27:52,933 --> 00:27:57,566 uh that could be useful uh today. um I think uh. 614 00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:05,467 Quoting winner one of our uh 615 00:29:05,467 --> 00:29:07,933 Quoting winner one of our uh one of our Canadian and that’s 616 00:29:07,933 --> 00:29:11,900 one of our Canadian and that’s that that can’t be jobs uh 617 00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:13,133 that that can’t be jobs uh versus the economy. It’s gonna 618 00:29:13,133 --> 00:29:15,967 versus the economy. It’s gonna be both or neither or sorry 619 00:29:15,967 --> 00:29:17,200 be both or neither or sorry jobs versus the environment. It 620 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,799 jobs versus the environment. It will be both or neither and I 621 00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:22,234 will be both or neither and I work for ITUC the International 622 00:29:22,234 --> 00:29:23,733 work for ITUC the International Trade Union Confederation, 623 00:29:23,733 --> 00:29:25,467 Trade Union Confederation, which is the global federation 624 00:29:25,467 --> 00:29:27,633 which is the global federation for most of the world unions We 625 00:29:27,633 --> 00:29:29,500 for most of the world unions We represent more than 200000000 626 00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:31,766 represent more than 200000000 organized workers in 162 627 00:29:31,766 --> 00:29:33,466 organized workers in 162 countries and I am going to 628 00:29:33,466 --> 00:29:34,833 countries and I am going to speak much more to the 629 00:29:34,833 --> 00:29:36,634 speak much more to the political part of political 630 00:29:36,634 --> 00:29:39,733 political part of political economy in this discussion. And 631 00:29:39,733 --> 00:29:41,367 economy in this discussion. And the director of the Transition 632 00:29:41,367 --> 00:29:42,767 the director of the Transition Center, which was set up by ITC 633 00:29:42,767 --> 00:29:44,833 Center, which was set up by ITC and its partners in response to 634 00:29:44,833 --> 00:29:46,834 and its partners in response to the Paris Agreement on climate 635 00:29:46,834 --> 00:29:48,567 the Paris Agreement on climate change and the international 636 00:29:48,567 --> 00:29:50,733 change and the international labor organizations Adoption of 637 00:29:50,733 --> 00:29:53,166 labor organizations Adoption of global rules on just transition 638 00:29:53,166 --> 00:29:55,100 global rules on just transition and just transition in case 639 00:29:55,100 --> 00:29:55,967 and just transition in case you’re not familiar with it. 640 00:29:55,967 --> 00:29:57,299 you’re not familiar with it. It’s basically all of the 641 00:29:57,299 --> 00:29:58,834 It’s basically all of the things that we now need to do 642 00:29:58,834 --> 00:30:02,300 things that we now need to do in Europe and globally to bring 643 00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:04,000 in Europe and globally to bring down emissions get people back 644 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,433 down emissions get people back to work and provide social 645 00:30:06,433 --> 00:30:07,167 to work and provide social protection, including both 646 00:30:07,167 --> 00:30:08,667 protection, including both health care and income support 647 00:30:08,667 --> 00:30:12,967 health care and income support and education and. And we help 648 00:30:12,967 --> 00:30:14,267 and education and. And we help unions and their allies get 649 00:30:14,267 --> 00:30:15,867 unions and their allies get good plans on just transition. 650 00:30:15,867 --> 00:30:17,867 good plans on just transition. These are always based on 651 00:30:17,867 --> 00:30:19,633 These are always based on social dialogue with unions 652 00:30:19,633 --> 00:30:21,700 social dialogue with unions employers, government often 653 00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:23,801 employers, government often communities at the table. This 654 00:30:23,801 --> 00:30:25,700 communities at the table. This can be everything from a 655 00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:26,400 can be everything from a collective bargaining agreement 656 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,967 collective bargaining agreement to the sector agreements We’ve 657 00:30:27,967 --> 00:30:30,467 to the sector agreements We’ve just heard discussed to a city 658 00:30:30,467 --> 00:30:32,733 just heard discussed to a city or regional plan or regulations 659 00:30:32,733 --> 00:30:35,167 or regional plan or regulations or even a national processor. 660 00:30:35,167 --> 00:30:37,600 or even a national processor. or what I’m I wanna say a 661 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,833 or what I’m I wanna say a couple of things about just 662 00:30:39,833 --> 00:30:42,300 couple of things about just transition and tie to this 663 00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:46,400 transition and tie to this discussion about uh about the. 664 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,467 discussion about uh about the. Crisis um just transition 665 00:30:48,467 --> 00:30:49,633 Crisis um just transition works, so we have evidence from 666 00:30:49,633 --> 00:30:50,767 works, so we have evidence from a number of countries some but 667 00:30:50,767 --> 00:30:53,000 a number of countries some but not all of them in Europe, you 668 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,266 not all of them in Europe, you need organized labor to manage 669 00:30:55,266 --> 00:30:57,633 need organized labor to manage a transition of this scale and 670 00:30:57,633 --> 00:30:59,299 a transition of this scale and speed and probably the best 671 00:30:59,299 --> 00:31:00,999 speed and probably the best agreement of how this works so 672 00:31:00,999 --> 00:31:02,267 agreement of how this works so far is the agreement to 673 00:31:02,267 --> 00:31:03,600 far is the agreement to transform Germany’s power 674 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,367 transform Germany’s power sector face alcohol revitalize 675 00:31:06,367 --> 00:31:08,533 sector face alcohol revitalize Germany’s co producing regions 676 00:31:08,533 --> 00:31:10,534 Germany’s co producing regions and bring uh make sure that no 677 00:31:10,534 --> 00:31:13,900 and bring uh make sure that no one is left behind and in 678 00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:17,500 one is left behind and in contrast. To you, Steven I you 679 00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:19,766 contrast. To you, Steven I you know our our senses that we’re 680 00:31:19,766 --> 00:31:21,333 know our our senses that we’re still in a pandemic and it is 681 00:31:21,333 --> 00:31:23,300 still in a pandemic and it is still the biggest global public 682 00:31:23,300 --> 00:31:25,200 still the biggest global public health crisis in more than 100 683 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,900 health crisis in more than 100 years, and though many of us 684 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:28,600 years, and though many of us may be, you know who feels as 685 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:29,533 may be, you know who feels as if we’re done with the crisis, 686 00:31:29,533 --> 00:31:31,867 if we’re done with the crisis, it is not done with us. There 687 00:31:31,867 --> 00:31:33,600 it is not done with us. There are signs that the economic 688 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,667 are signs that the economic crisis is using, but it may be 689 00:31:35,667 --> 00:31:38,334 crisis is using, but it may be premature to talk about a 690 00:31:38,334 --> 00:31:40,033 premature to talk about a recovery. We’re still to a 691 00:31:40,033 --> 00:31:41,634 recovery. We’re still to a great extent and response and 692 00:31:41,634 --> 00:31:43,966 great extent and response and stimulus mode. I mean even more 693 00:31:43,966 --> 00:31:46,166 stimulus mode. I mean even more importantly for working people, 694 00:31:46,166 --> 00:31:51,100 importantly for working people, this is a job. Lips and 695 00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:53,534 this is a job. Lips and globally more than 300000000 696 00:31:53,534 --> 00:31:55,733 globally more than 300000000 jobs were lost between April 697 00:31:55,733 --> 00:31:57,400 jobs were lost between April and June in Europe in the same 698 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,666 and June in Europe in the same period, more than five and a 699 00:31:59,666 --> 00:32:01,367 period, more than five and a half million jobs lost. It’s a 700 00:32:01,367 --> 00:32:03,734 half million jobs lost. It’s a crisis of both supply and 701 00:32:03,734 --> 00:32:05,600 crisis of both supply and demand, and if we you know, 702 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,899 demand, and if we you know, look at our people uh so not 703 00:32:07,899 --> 00:32:10,334 look at our people uh so not only organized workers their 704 00:32:10,334 --> 00:32:11,733 only organized workers their families uh other working class 705 00:32:11,733 --> 00:32:14,167 families uh other working class people are angry. They’re 706 00:32:14,167 --> 00:32:15,833 people are angry. They’re desperate they are scared 707 00:32:15,833 --> 00:32:17,500 desperate they are scared somewhat less so in Europe due 708 00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:19,000 somewhat less so in Europe due to our social protection 709 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:19,967 to our social protection systems, but nonetheless, there 710 00:32:19,967 --> 00:32:22,734 systems, but nonetheless, there are millions. Unemployed across 711 00:32:22,734 --> 00:32:24,934 are millions. Unemployed across the region and in any 712 00:32:24,934 --> 00:32:26,000 the region and in any discussion about responding to 713 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,666 discussion about responding to this crisis, their concerns 714 00:32:27,666 --> 00:32:28,967 this crisis, their concerns have to be front and center 715 00:32:28,967 --> 00:32:32,366 have to be front and center their work their jobs, their 716 00:32:32,366 --> 00:32:33,034 their work their jobs, their consumption or the things 717 00:32:33,034 --> 00:32:36,266 consumption or the things you’re gonna drive a recovery 718 00:32:36,266 --> 00:32:37,800 you’re gonna drive a recovery or not and just to say a bit 719 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,300 or not and just to say a bit about where people are and how 720 00:32:40,300 --> 00:32:41,733 about where people are and how that connects to the politics. 721 00:32:41,733 --> 00:32:43,399 that connects to the politics. I mean if you were employed in 722 00:32:43,399 --> 00:32:44,699 I mean if you were employed in February, you just want your 723 00:32:44,699 --> 00:32:46,200 February, you just want your old job back and if you weren’t 724 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,333 old job back and if you weren’t employed, say if you’re a 725 00:32:48,333 --> 00:32:49,900 employed, say if you’re a recent graduate, you’re really 726 00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:50,734 recent graduate, you’re really frightened right now because 727 00:32:50,734 --> 00:32:53,334 frightened right now because there are no jobs. So what. 728 00:32:53,334 --> 00:32:55,867 there are no jobs. So what. What that means is that on the 729 00:32:55,867 --> 00:32:58,333 What that means is that on the one hand we shouldn’t over 730 00:32:58,333 --> 00:33:00,000 one hand we shouldn’t over interpret stimulus packages so 731 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,633 interpret stimulus packages so far that are going to polluting 732 00:33:01,633 --> 00:33:03,733 far that are going to polluting the industry a lot of countries 733 00:33:03,733 --> 00:33:05,367 the industry a lot of countries politicians employers unions, 734 00:33:05,367 --> 00:33:06,800 politicians employers unions, they’re just trying to respond 735 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,833 they’re just trying to respond to what people want by 736 00:33:08,833 --> 00:33:10,434 to what people want by switching on the economy we had 737 00:33:10,434 --> 00:33:13,533 switching on the economy we had in February. what it does mean 738 00:33:13,533 --> 00:33:16,700 in February. what it does mean is that a green recovery, for 739 00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:18,800 is that a green recovery, for example, the European Green 740 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:19,800 example, the European Green Recovery package it has it has 741 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,466 Recovery package it has it has to be just recovery. It has to 742 00:33:22,466 --> 00:33:23,966 to be just recovery. It has to involve a just transition labor 743 00:33:23,966 --> 00:33:26,266 involve a just transition labor has. At the table and 744 00:33:26,266 --> 00:33:27,367 has. At the table and negotiating the package and how 745 00:33:27,367 --> 00:33:29,900 negotiating the package and how it gets rolled out, it has to 746 00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:31,734 it gets rolled out, it has to create good jobs and it has to 747 00:33:31,734 --> 00:33:34,700 create good jobs and it has to be under pinned by social 748 00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:36,834 be under pinned by social protection. so good job social 749 00:33:36,834 --> 00:33:37,534 protection. so good job social protection, especially health 750 00:33:37,534 --> 00:33:39,267 protection, especially health and income support. These are 751 00:33:39,267 --> 00:33:40,800 and income support. These are top priorities for every 752 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,233 top priorities for every working person. They have to be 753 00:33:42,233 --> 00:33:44,667 working person. They have to be front and center What we can’t 754 00:33:44,667 --> 00:33:48,334 front and center What we can’t have is what we got in 2008 and 755 00:33:48,334 --> 00:33:49,767 have is what we got in 2008 and some uh some of what we have 756 00:33:49,767 --> 00:33:50,700 some uh some of what we have seen on the climate front in 757 00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:52,400 seen on the climate front in other countries, we can’t have 758 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,000 other countries, we can’t have top-down targets without jobs 759 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,400 top-down targets without jobs or social welfare. We can’t 760 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,767 or social welfare. We can’t have programs that. And labor 761 00:33:57,767 --> 00:34:00,333 have programs that. And labor laws and create lots of 762 00:34:00,333 --> 00:34:01,900 laws and create lots of insecure jobs with poor wages 763 00:34:01,900 --> 00:34:03,533 insecure jobs with poor wages and conditions. We can’t have a 764 00:34:03,533 --> 00:34:04,900 and conditions. We can’t have a return of austerity for public 765 00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:06,600 return of austerity for public services and public employment. 766 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,634 services and public employment. So we say we’re where I come 767 00:34:08,634 --> 00:34:09,967 So we say we’re where I come from this ain’t it and we’re 768 00:34:09,967 --> 00:34:12,367 from this ain’t it and we’re gonna get a political backlash 769 00:34:12,367 --> 00:34:13,633 gonna get a political backlash bigger than what we have seen 770 00:34:13,633 --> 00:34:15,799 bigger than what we have seen so far if we can’t have a 771 00:34:15,799 --> 00:34:16,467 so far if we can’t have a different approach now in 772 00:34:16,467 --> 00:34:20,433 different approach now in Europe. I completely agree with 773 00:34:20,433 --> 00:34:23,167 Europe. I completely agree with you Barbara that we absolutely 774 00:34:23,167 --> 00:34:25,366 you Barbara that we absolutely have the technology to know how 775 00:34:25,366 --> 00:34:27,234 have the technology to know how the industrial base the 776 00:34:27,234 --> 00:34:28,401 the industrial base the opportunities and different 777 00:34:28,401 --> 00:34:31,066 opportunities and different sectors to get a green recovery 778 00:34:31,066 --> 00:34:33,234 sectors to get a green recovery and just transition, 779 00:34:33,234 --> 00:34:34,000 and just transition, particularly but not only here 780 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,600 particularly but not only here in Europe um but, in addition 781 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,500 in Europe um but, in addition to all of the things that have 782 00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,334 to all of the things that have been discussed, we have to have 783 00:34:40,334 --> 00:34:43,267 been discussed, we have to have the social policies backed us 784 00:34:43,267 --> 00:34:45,233 the social policies backed us up. We have to have an 785 00:34:45,233 --> 00:34:46,400 up. We have to have an industrial strategy sector 786 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:47,433 industrial strategy sector strategies that are matched 787 00:34:47,433 --> 00:34:50,699 strategies that are matched with. All strategies and we 788 00:34:50,699 --> 00:34:52,299 with. All strategies and we know what social policies work 789 00:34:52,299 --> 00:34:54,801 know what social policies work in these situations, we know we 790 00:34:54,801 --> 00:34:57,367 in these situations, we know we need again social protection 791 00:34:57,367 --> 00:34:58,166 need again social protection income support active labor 792 00:34:58,166 --> 00:35:00,266 income support active labor market policies, Labor rights 793 00:35:00,266 --> 00:35:03,667 market policies, Labor rights social dialogue Public 794 00:35:03,667 --> 00:35:05,634 social dialogue Public investment public services if 795 00:35:05,634 --> 00:35:07,867 investment public services if we’re going to get a green 796 00:35:07,867 --> 00:35:08,734 we’re going to get a green recovery, it can’t just be in 797 00:35:08,734 --> 00:35:10,800 recovery, it can’t just be in Europe. it has to be um as 798 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,434 Europe. it has to be um as global as possible right now 799 00:35:12,434 --> 00:35:13,799 global as possible right now looking at what’s going on 800 00:35:13,799 --> 00:35:15,867 looking at what’s going on politically in different 801 00:35:15,867 --> 00:35:17,567 politically in different countries So far, Europe is the 802 00:35:17,567 --> 00:35:18,834 countries So far, Europe is the place where we have the most 803 00:35:18,834 --> 00:35:20,000 place where we have the most hope for and the best chance of 804 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,733 hope for and the best chance of getting this um. Depending a 805 00:35:23,733 --> 00:35:25,699 getting this um. Depending a bit on the political 806 00:35:25,699 --> 00:35:27,234 bit on the political developments, get other big 807 00:35:27,234 --> 00:35:28,666 developments, get other big green recovery packages and 808 00:35:28,666 --> 00:35:30,434 green recovery packages and other countries that would be a 809 00:35:30,434 --> 00:35:31,933 other countries that would be a best case outcome. There are 810 00:35:31,933 --> 00:35:34,234 best case outcome. There are other outcomes for which uh for 811 00:35:34,234 --> 00:35:35,899 other outcomes for which uh for which we should plan in Europe 812 00:35:35,899 --> 00:35:39,267 which we should plan in Europe want to say two words about the 813 00:35:39,267 --> 00:35:41,733 want to say two words about the about the European package so 814 00:35:41,733 --> 00:35:43,167 about the European package so far right because now it has to 815 00:35:43,167 --> 00:35:45,500 far right because now it has to go through a political 816 00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:47,400 go through a political discussion in Parliament, There 817 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,767 discussion in Parliament, There are many things that are good 818 00:35:48,767 --> 00:35:50,533 are many things that are good about what was agreed, but what 819 00:35:50,533 --> 00:35:52,934 about what was agreed, but what is less good is that funding 820 00:35:52,934 --> 00:35:55,267 is less good is that funding that was focused on workers on 821 00:35:55,267 --> 00:35:57,533 that was focused on workers on European industry on just 822 00:35:57,533 --> 00:35:59,567 European industry on just transition. On the cutting room 823 00:35:59,567 --> 00:36:00,934 transition. On the cutting room floor, and that’s everything 824 00:36:00,934 --> 00:36:01,966 floor, and that’s everything from funding the just 825 00:36:01,966 --> 00:36:03,933 from funding the just transition mechanism to the 826 00:36:03,933 --> 00:36:07,100 transition mechanism to the globalization Adjustment fund. 827 00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:10,133 globalization Adjustment fund. So this is also not the future 828 00:36:10,133 --> 00:36:11,766 So this is also not the future that we want if we want a 829 00:36:11,766 --> 00:36:14,400 that we want if we want a Europe that is leading on low 830 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:15,966 Europe that is leading on low emissions industry that is able 831 00:36:15,966 --> 00:36:18,000 emissions industry that is able to export. it’s technologies 832 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,600 to export. it’s technologies and products around the world 833 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:20,767 and products around the world that has been a strong basis 834 00:36:20,767 --> 00:36:22,267 that has been a strong basis for trade negotiations that 835 00:36:22,267 --> 00:36:23,934 for trade negotiations that include climate and labor 836 00:36:23,934 --> 00:36:25,700 include climate and labor policies. We’re gonna have to 837 00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:28,700 policies. We’re gonna have to do better in the green recovery 838 00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:32,900 do better in the green recovery package. Two last things before 839 00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:36,600 package. Two last things before I before I close and we haven’t 840 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,201 I before I close and we haven’t said anything about oil and 841 00:36:38,201 --> 00:36:39,934 said anything about oil and gas, but yet you know if we 842 00:36:39,934 --> 00:36:41,833 gas, but yet you know if we look again globally and Steven, 843 00:36:41,833 --> 00:36:43,934 look again globally and Steven, you’ll know this better than I 844 00:36:43,934 --> 00:36:46,200 you’ll know this better than I do the industry is in crisis 845 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:47,667 do the industry is in crisis right at the bottom is falling 846 00:36:47,667 --> 00:36:50,167 right at the bottom is falling out of demand and a lot of 847 00:36:50,167 --> 00:36:51,700 out of demand and a lot of countries. um there’s also you 848 00:36:51,700 --> 00:36:54,866 countries. um there’s also you know uh geopolitics around the 849 00:36:54,866 --> 00:36:58,000 know uh geopolitics around the oil supply of that and without 850 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,400 oil supply of that and without getting. Just say that from the 851 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:01,667 getting. Just say that from the perspective of our many 852 00:37:01,667 --> 00:37:03,167 perspective of our many millions of members who are 853 00:37:03,167 --> 00:37:05,167 millions of members who are employed in oil and gas supply 854 00:37:05,167 --> 00:37:06,800 employed in oil and gas supply chain, it’s not that they are 855 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,233 chain, it’s not that they are opposed to change or to adjust 856 00:37:09,233 --> 00:37:10,934 opposed to change or to adjust transition what they want is 857 00:37:10,934 --> 00:37:15,000 transition what they want is they want companies to remain 858 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,267 they want companies to remain prosperous, thriving and 859 00:37:16,267 --> 00:37:18,400 prosperous, thriving and employing people and to take 860 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,267 employing people and to take their workers with them if 861 00:37:19,267 --> 00:37:20,300 their workers with them if they’re going to transform and 862 00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:22,799 they’re going to transform and bring down their emissions and 863 00:37:22,799 --> 00:37:25,200 bring down their emissions and that obligation to shift 864 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,367 that obligation to shift portfolios to go boldly into. 865 00:37:28,367 --> 00:37:30,700 portfolios to go boldly into. That have long-term legs as 866 00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:33,201 That have long-term legs as well as having short term jobs 867 00:37:33,201 --> 00:37:33,700 well as having short term jobs that has to rest with the 868 00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:35,400 that has to rest with the employers and it should be done 869 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,934 employers and it should be done with organized labor when it 870 00:37:37,934 --> 00:37:39,667 with organized labor when it comes to construction and 871 00:37:39,667 --> 00:37:41,934 comes to construction and buildings. Construction 872 00:37:41,934 --> 00:37:43,800 buildings. Construction buildings infrastructure 873 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,267 buildings infrastructure building renovation can indeed 874 00:37:45,267 --> 00:37:46,800 building renovation can indeed create millions of jobs in 875 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,333 create millions of jobs in Europe and globally, but 876 00:37:48,333 --> 00:37:49,634 Europe and globally, but there’s a tendency to think 877 00:37:49,634 --> 00:37:51,700 there’s a tendency to think that you know these can be 878 00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:53,867 that you know these can be insecure poorly paid unsafe 879 00:37:53,867 --> 00:37:56,866 insecure poorly paid unsafe jobs without skills actually, 880 00:37:56,866 --> 00:37:57,966 jobs without skills actually, if you’re going to renovate a 881 00:37:57,966 --> 00:37:59,666 if you’re going to renovate a building to zero emission 882 00:37:59,666 --> 00:38:00,599 building to zero emission standards, that’s a highly 883 00:38:00,599 --> 00:38:03,699 standards, that’s a highly skilled job you need workers. 884 00:38:03,699 --> 00:38:05,201 skilled job you need workers. Appropriately skilled and 885 00:38:05,201 --> 00:38:06,800 Appropriately skilled and compensated what we don’t need 886 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,133 compensated what we don’t need is dumping and a bunch of 887 00:38:09,133 --> 00:38:11,733 is dumping and a bunch of insecure jobs in this critical 888 00:38:11,733 --> 00:38:14,434 insecure jobs in this critical sector so to conclude if I were 889 00:38:14,434 --> 00:38:14,900 sector so to conclude if I were gonna take this poll that 890 00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:17,334 gonna take this poll that you’ve put out I might go for 891 00:38:17,334 --> 00:38:18,999 you’ve put out I might go for public and private investment, 892 00:38:18,999 --> 00:38:20,400 public and private investment, but my topic is actually not on 893 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,467 but my topic is actually not on the list and that would be to 894 00:38:22,467 --> 00:38:24,600 the list and that would be to add labor standards to every 895 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,699 add labor standards to every single target and package uh 896 00:38:27,699 --> 00:38:30,333 single target and package uh because again we can’t choose 897 00:38:30,333 --> 00:38:32,567 because again we can’t choose between climate uh avoiding 898 00:38:32,567 --> 00:38:34,467 between climate uh avoiding climate change and jobs. It 899 00:38:34,467 --> 00:38:36,267 climate change and jobs. It really has to be both and those 900 00:38:36,267 --> 00:38:37,134 really has to be both and those jobs have to be good jobs. 901 00:38:37,134 --> 00:38:40,867 jobs have to be good jobs. Thank you very much. 902 00:38:41,199 --> 00:38:44,634 Thank you Thank you Samantha 903 00:38:44,634 --> 00:38:46,833 Thank you Thank you Samantha for reinforcing the point of 904 00:38:46,833 --> 00:38:50,367 for reinforcing the point of the need to find uh policies 905 00:38:50,367 --> 00:38:53,267 the need to find uh policies that basically match the growth 906 00:38:53,267 --> 00:38:55,667 that basically match the growth uh requirement the jobs 907 00:38:55,667 --> 00:38:56,833 uh requirement the jobs requirement the degree and the 908 00:38:56,833 --> 00:38:59,833 requirement the degree and the requirement in the fairness uh 909 00:38:59,833 --> 00:39:02,933 requirement in the fairness uh quite um, of course if you were 910 00:39:02,933 --> 00:39:05,334 quite um, of course if you were if we just look at our 911 00:39:05,334 --> 00:39:08,567 if we just look at our discussion we see that uh there 912 00:39:08,567 --> 00:39:11,933 discussion we see that uh there are many uh request. From the 913 00:39:11,933 --> 00:39:14,800 are many uh request. From the one hand and we hear we need 914 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,767 one hand and we hear we need more for the renovation. On the 915 00:39:17,767 --> 00:39:19,801 more for the renovation. On the other hand, we can hurt. we 916 00:39:19,801 --> 00:39:22,400 other hand, we can hurt. we need more for the uh the people 917 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,500 need more for the uh the people would say we need more for this 918 00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:26,367 would say we need more for this kind of investment for other 919 00:39:26,367 --> 00:39:28,134 kind of investment for other kind of investments so there 920 00:39:28,134 --> 00:39:31,634 kind of investments so there are many requests to uh to 921 00:39:31,634 --> 00:39:33,167 are many requests to uh to deliver on this and the 922 00:39:33,167 --> 00:39:35,067 deliver on this and the resources are at the end of the 923 00:39:35,067 --> 00:39:38,634 resources are at the end of the uh at the end of the limit. now 924 00:39:38,634 --> 00:39:43,333 uh at the end of the limit. now this limit to the. 925 00:40:46,300 --> 00:40:48,967 And I agree with uh with a lot 926 00:40:48,967 --> 00:40:50,334 And I agree with uh with a lot of what has been said, 927 00:40:50,334 --> 00:40:52,966 of what has been said, especially the presumption that 928 00:40:52,966 --> 00:40:56,434 especially the presumption that invest in the globalization is 929 00:40:56,434 --> 00:40:59,299 invest in the globalization is need of climate and will be a 930 00:40:59,299 --> 00:41:00,734 need of climate and will be a contribution to the recovery So 931 00:41:00,734 --> 00:41:02,600 contribution to the recovery So investment is indeed some 932 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,567 investment is indeed some saying that uh uh uh that that 933 00:41:04,567 --> 00:41:06,634 saying that uh uh uh that that we should talk about uh here 934 00:41:06,634 --> 00:41:09,799 we should talk about uh here today when we talk about Queen 935 00:41:09,799 --> 00:41:12,334 today when we talk about Queen recovery, the question is which 936 00:41:12,334 --> 00:41:13,134 recovery, the question is which investment projects to be want 937 00:41:13,134 --> 00:41:15,867 investment projects to be want and we had a couple of. Uh 938 00:41:15,867 --> 00:41:18,333 and we had a couple of. Uh discussed already and he has 939 00:41:18,333 --> 00:41:19,200 discussed already and he has the question is how can the 940 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,367 the question is how can the government and look those uh 941 00:41:21,367 --> 00:41:23,366 government and look those uh that we are decreasing a 942 00:41:23,366 --> 00:41:28,299 that we are decreasing a useful. I would argue him um 943 00:41:28,299 --> 00:41:29,867 useful. I would argue him um maybe a bit more 944 00:41:29,867 --> 00:41:31,234 maybe a bit more controversially that the volume 945 00:41:31,234 --> 00:41:34,000 controversially that the volume of new regret recovery projects 946 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,467 of new regret recovery projects that can be deployed by just 947 00:41:36,467 --> 00:41:37,834 that can be deployed by just employing public finances. Uh 948 00:41:37,834 --> 00:41:39,500 employing public finances. Uh it’s more limited than the uh 949 00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:42,300 it’s more limited than the uh uh and we might see and um the 950 00:41:42,300 --> 00:41:44,633 uh and we might see and um the reason for that is that a lot 951 00:41:44,633 --> 00:41:46,400 reason for that is that a lot of the projects that we can 952 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,934 of the projects that we can support publicly uh to to bring 953 00:41:48,934 --> 00:41:50,367 support publicly uh to to bring them over the line like one of 954 00:41:50,367 --> 00:41:51,867 them over the line like one of the elements that are needed 955 00:41:51,867 --> 00:41:54,399 the elements that are needed for for green recovery. So. A 956 00:41:54,399 --> 00:41:56,934 for for green recovery. So. A lot of projects that are great 957 00:41:56,934 --> 00:41:58,300 lot of projects that are great uh but that cannot be deployed 958 00:41:58,300 --> 00:42:00,933 uh but that cannot be deployed fast enough. so we talk for 959 00:42:00,933 --> 00:42:02,167 fast enough. so we talk for example about a European 960 00:42:02,167 --> 00:42:03,700 example about a European railway system, but that will 961 00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:06,366 railway system, but that will take uh probably more than more 962 00:42:06,366 --> 00:42:09,934 take uh probably more than more than 1020 30 years to develop. 963 00:42:09,934 --> 00:42:10,600 than 1020 30 years to develop. It’s not something where a lot 964 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,133 It’s not something where a lot of money can be can be brought 965 00:42:13,133 --> 00:42:15,734 of money can be can be brought in immediately. Um we talk 966 00:42:15,734 --> 00:42:19,466 in immediately. Um we talk about uh some uh uh we we 967 00:42:19,466 --> 00:42:21,633 about uh some uh uh we we talked about a lot of energy 968 00:42:21,633 --> 00:42:23,766 talked about a lot of energy efficiency investments in uh in 969 00:42:23,766 --> 00:42:25,700 efficiency investments in uh in private and public buildings. 970 00:42:25,700 --> 00:42:27,834 private and public buildings. Yes. A lot can be done and must 971 00:42:27,834 --> 00:42:30,200 Yes. A lot can be done and must be done um, but in in some of 972 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,267 be done um, but in in some of the countries we currently have 973 00:42:31,267 --> 00:42:33,933 the countries we currently have a capacity over us already or 974 00:42:33,933 --> 00:42:35,467 a capacity over us already or are close to the uh close to 975 00:42:35,467 --> 00:42:36,833 are close to the uh close to the capacity so in my country 976 00:42:36,833 --> 00:42:38,167 the capacity so in my country in Germany, it will be quite 977 00:42:38,167 --> 00:42:39,900 in Germany, it will be quite difficult to find uh when 978 00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:41,967 difficult to find uh when people that are going to uh to 979 00:42:41,967 --> 00:42:43,667 people that are going to uh to essentially deliver that 980 00:42:43,667 --> 00:42:46,133 essentially deliver that quickly so capacity on the US 981 00:42:46,133 --> 00:42:48,801 quickly so capacity on the US is a necessity to make uh a 982 00:42:48,801 --> 00:42:52,667 is a necessity to make uh a recovery program uh useful um 983 00:42:52,667 --> 00:42:55,299 recovery program uh useful um then for a couple of projects 984 00:42:55,299 --> 00:42:56,933 then for a couple of projects it could be quite difficult to 985 00:42:56,933 --> 00:42:59,367 it could be quite difficult to uh to ensure that there’s 986 00:42:59,367 --> 00:43:00,467 uh to ensure that there’s additional of this project so 987 00:43:00,467 --> 00:43:03,534 additional of this project so we can throw a lot of more. On 988 00:43:03,534 --> 00:43:05,733 we can throw a lot of more. On um say uh certain renewable 989 00:43:05,733 --> 00:43:07,967 um say uh certain renewable types uh but a lot of this 990 00:43:07,967 --> 00:43:10,234 types uh but a lot of this money will essentially uh 991 00:43:10,234 --> 00:43:11,833 money will essentially uh increased prices about 992 00:43:11,833 --> 00:43:13,934 increased prices about immediately uh leading to uh to 993 00:43:13,934 --> 00:43:16,900 immediately uh leading to uh to a higher amounts of deployed 994 00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:19,300 a higher amounts of deployed capital and in uh in terms of 995 00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:21,733 capital and in uh in terms of more jobs being created it 996 00:43:21,733 --> 00:43:23,267 more jobs being created it first go into the price in my 997 00:43:23,267 --> 00:43:25,800 first go into the price in my might take beyond the current 998 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,534 might take beyond the current crisis to uh uh to allow. And 999 00:43:29,534 --> 00:43:31,100 crisis to uh uh to allow. And now a criteria it’s a chain 1000 00:43:31,100 --> 00:43:33,266 now a criteria it’s a chain effect so we don’t want to 1001 00:43:33,266 --> 00:43:34,866 effect so we don’t want to invest in prototypes that are 1002 00:43:34,866 --> 00:43:37,400 invest in prototypes that are based entirely on imported 1003 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:38,533 based entirely on imported capital goods, so we don’t want 1004 00:43:38,533 --> 00:43:41,066 capital goods, so we don’t want to just install a Chinese 1005 00:43:41,066 --> 00:43:45,300 to just install a Chinese produce A PV panels. uh we want 1006 00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:47,766 produce A PV panels. uh we want certain projects that have 1007 00:43:47,766 --> 00:43:49,300 certain projects that have significant value chain uh 1008 00:43:49,300 --> 00:43:50,201 significant value chain uh implications throughout Europe 1009 00:43:50,201 --> 00:43:51,433 implications throughout Europe in order to increase the 1010 00:43:51,433 --> 00:43:53,267 in order to increase the multiplier to to levels that I 1011 00:43:53,267 --> 00:43:55,966 multiplier to to levels that I have to uh to the recovery and 1012 00:43:55,966 --> 00:43:57,733 have to uh to the recovery and finally a lot of policies have 1013 00:43:57,733 --> 00:44:01,133 finally a lot of policies have a problem of uh uh uh. Or 1014 00:44:01,133 --> 00:44:02,667 a problem of uh uh uh. Or especially if you’re thinking 1015 00:44:02,667 --> 00:44:03,900 especially if you’re thinking about it on the uh in the 1016 00:44:03,900 --> 00:44:06,367 about it on the uh in the European level. so if in in 1017 00:44:06,367 --> 00:44:08,000 European level. so if in in country, it’s a Germany. A lot 1018 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:09,234 country, it’s a Germany. A lot of renewables are deployed and 1019 00:44:09,234 --> 00:44:11,467 of renewables are deployed and and uh all the uh the renewable 1020 00:44:11,467 --> 00:44:13,733 and uh all the uh the renewable and uh uh installation types 1021 00:44:13,733 --> 00:44:15,433 and uh uh installation types then go to Germany and the 1022 00:44:15,433 --> 00:44:16,200 then go to Germany and the auction process and as a 1023 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:17,500 auction process and as a country might be attractive 1024 00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:18,399 country might be attractive anymore and you won’t get any 1025 00:44:18,399 --> 00:44:20,900 anymore and you won’t get any uh any new builds there so we 1026 00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:23,967 uh any new builds there so we have to uh to do some European 1027 00:44:23,967 --> 00:44:25,333 have to uh to do some European coordination here to avoid that 1028 00:44:25,333 --> 00:44:27,067 coordination here to avoid that that’s that crowd out effects 1029 00:44:27,067 --> 00:44:30,200 that’s that crowd out effects uh just based on. Public 1030 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:31,801 uh just based on. Public financing because over all they 1031 00:44:31,801 --> 00:44:33,400 financing because over all they wouldn’t stimulate European 1032 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,934 wouldn’t stimulate European economy as much as needed, so I 1033 00:44:35,934 --> 00:44:38,333 economy as much as needed, so I would argue and it’s it’s very 1034 00:44:38,333 --> 00:44:39,134 would argue and it’s it’s very important to look into the 1035 00:44:39,134 --> 00:44:40,801 important to look into the individual projects to 1036 00:44:40,801 --> 00:44:41,433 individual projects to understand what is holding them 1037 00:44:41,433 --> 00:44:43,801 understand what is holding them back. so we we really need an 1038 00:44:43,801 --> 00:44:45,400 back. so we we really need an understanding we have this uh 1039 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:46,866 understanding we have this uh this nice uh smart housing 1040 00:44:46,866 --> 00:44:48,700 this nice uh smart housing renovation projects that I that 1041 00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:52,000 renovation projects that I that I would fully back or uh um uh 1042 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,967 I would fully back or uh um uh or transmission uh uh building 1043 00:44:54,967 --> 00:44:56,434 or transmission uh uh building projects that that’s mentioned 1044 00:44:56,434 --> 00:44:57,900 projects that that’s mentioned that I also call and we have 1045 00:44:57,900 --> 00:45:01,266 that I also call and we have to. Is for those individuals 1046 00:45:01,266 --> 00:45:04,067 to. Is for those individuals and very often it’s not uh uh 1047 00:45:04,067 --> 00:45:06,366 and very often it’s not uh uh direct public finance lower 1048 00:45:06,366 --> 00:45:07,866 direct public finance lower interest rates, but it’s also a 1049 00:45:07,866 --> 00:45:10,400 interest rates, but it’s also a regulatory to us and we need to 1050 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,000 regulatory to us and we need to be as Steve said Laser focused 1051 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,600 be as Steve said Laser focused on uh on getting the credit 1052 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:15,733 on uh on getting the credit policies that are needed to to 1053 00:45:15,733 --> 00:45:19,699 policies that are needed to to uh to make them uh take off the 1054 00:45:19,699 --> 00:45:23,967 uh to make them uh take off the ground um so such uh such uh up 1055 00:45:23,967 --> 00:45:25,666 ground um so such uh such uh up singing is needed to uh to 1056 00:45:25,666 --> 00:45:29,967 singing is needed to uh to determine the IUI um. It needs 1057 00:45:29,967 --> 00:45:31,900 determine the IUI um. It needs to be general enough to not 1058 00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:33,967 to be general enough to not only support those specific 1059 00:45:33,967 --> 00:45:35,767 only support those specific projects that you had in mind 1060 00:45:35,767 --> 00:45:37,534 projects that you had in mind initially, but also to support 1061 00:45:37,534 --> 00:45:38,733 initially, but also to support a much better. a number of 1062 00:45:38,733 --> 00:45:40,500 a much better. a number of projects that uh that uh uh 1063 00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:42,000 projects that uh that uh uh that entrepreneurs can come up 1064 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,167 that entrepreneurs can come up with and that uh that fit into 1065 00:45:44,167 --> 00:45:47,633 with and that uh that fit into the narrative of uh of queen 1066 00:45:47,633 --> 00:45:53,733 the narrative of uh of queen derive uh of a recovery um so 1067 00:45:53,733 --> 00:45:57,467 derive uh of a recovery um so in my take the uh a lot of talk 1068 00:45:57,467 --> 00:45:59,967 in my take the uh a lot of talk has been on e ID and financial 1069 00:45:59,967 --> 00:46:01,400 has been on e ID and financial conditions and uh II would 1070 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,866 conditions and uh II would really like. Steve and Bob uh 1071 00:46:04,866 --> 00:46:07,567 really like. Steve and Bob uh uh uh after that to uh to to 1072 00:46:07,567 --> 00:46:09,799 uh uh after that to uh to to share the view, but my take is 1073 00:46:09,799 --> 00:46:11,333 share the view, but my take is that financing conditions are 1074 00:46:11,333 --> 00:46:12,801 that financing conditions are extremely benign in Europe and 1075 00:46:12,801 --> 00:46:14,133 extremely benign in Europe and are going to uh to be benign 1076 00:46:14,133 --> 00:46:16,066 are going to uh to be benign for the for the coming year. so 1077 00:46:16,066 --> 00:46:18,367 for the for the coming year. so we have very low uh central 1078 00:46:18,367 --> 00:46:19,333 we have very low uh central bank interest rates and I think 1079 00:46:19,333 --> 00:46:20,734 bank interest rates and I think it’s uh it’s also in the 1080 00:46:20,734 --> 00:46:22,167 it’s uh it’s also in the markets relatively easy to uh 1081 00:46:22,167 --> 00:46:25,633 markets relatively easy to uh to get financed The problem is 1082 00:46:25,633 --> 00:46:27,367 to get financed The problem is more expected cash flow of the 1083 00:46:27,367 --> 00:46:28,933 more expected cash flow of the investment project. So are 1084 00:46:28,933 --> 00:46:29,733 investment project. So are these projects essentially 1085 00:46:29,733 --> 00:46:32,966 these projects essentially making uh money. That investors 1086 00:46:32,966 --> 00:46:35,300 making uh money. That investors are willing to to invest in 1087 00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:36,801 are willing to to invest in them and for making sure that 1088 00:46:36,801 --> 00:46:39,301 them and for making sure that we that we get that what we 1089 00:46:39,301 --> 00:46:41,267 we that we get that what we need and uh is my strong view 1090 00:46:41,267 --> 00:46:43,266 need and uh is my strong view is that we need that we 1091 00:46:43,266 --> 00:46:44,700 is that we need that we expected that carbon price not 1092 00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:45,367 expected that carbon price not only this year or next year, 1093 00:46:45,367 --> 00:46:47,799 only this year or next year, but for the future, it’s uh 1094 00:46:47,799 --> 00:46:49,434 but for the future, it’s uh it’s much more meaningful than 1095 00:46:49,434 --> 00:46:51,633 it’s much more meaningful than we have today and it’s 1096 00:46:51,633 --> 00:46:53,434 we have today and it’s extending all sectors and he 1097 00:46:53,434 --> 00:46:55,200 extending all sectors and he might need some supplier 1098 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:56,866 might need some supplier restrictions for polluting 1099 00:46:56,866 --> 00:46:59,200 restrictions for polluting solutions so standouts 1100 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:00,600 solutions so standouts essentially then touch screen 1101 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,667 essentially then touch screen policy. Essentially had to to 1102 00:47:03,667 --> 00:47:05,300 policy. Essentially had to to depress capital more quickly 1103 00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:06,767 depress capital more quickly and that would create 1104 00:47:06,767 --> 00:47:08,767 and that would create investment demand across the 1105 00:47:08,767 --> 00:47:10,800 investment demand across the board for all green technology 1106 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,334 board for all green technology um and now how how do we get 1107 00:47:14,334 --> 00:47:15,733 um and now how how do we get there? well, it would be ideal 1108 00:47:15,733 --> 00:47:17,500 there? well, it would be ideal to guarantee today, meaning for 1109 00:47:17,500 --> 00:47:20,633 to guarantee today, meaning for common prices uh and uh the 1110 00:47:20,633 --> 00:47:21,534 common prices uh and uh the capitalization policies in the 1111 00:47:21,534 --> 00:47:22,834 capitalization policies in the future. The commission is 1112 00:47:22,834 --> 00:47:24,000 future. The commission is moving a bit in the direction 1113 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,834 moving a bit in the direction of talking about uh 2030 target 1114 00:47:27,834 --> 00:47:29,067 of talking about uh 2030 target ambition increases and also 1115 00:47:29,067 --> 00:47:29,866 ambition increases and also look at discussions on the 1116 00:47:29,866 --> 00:47:34,400 look at discussions on the energy. But I would argue um 1117 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,133 energy. But I would argue um statements by the uh by the 1118 00:47:36,133 --> 00:47:37,667 statements by the uh by the European Council that this is 1119 00:47:37,667 --> 00:47:39,834 European Council that this is really the direction of travel 1120 00:47:39,834 --> 00:47:40,567 really the direction of travel would be extremely helpful at 1121 00:47:40,567 --> 00:47:42,666 would be extremely helpful at that stage to to focus 1122 00:47:42,666 --> 00:47:44,466 that stage to to focus everybody that investments 1123 00:47:44,466 --> 00:47:46,299 everybody that investments today are going into the into 1124 00:47:46,299 --> 00:47:47,934 today are going into the into the direction and Steven 1125 00:47:47,934 --> 00:47:49,433 the direction and Steven mentioned uh fiscal 1126 00:47:49,433 --> 00:47:51,066 mentioned uh fiscal sustainability of the recovery 1127 00:47:51,066 --> 00:47:53,233 sustainability of the recovery measures and here I would argue 1128 00:47:53,233 --> 00:47:54,701 measures and here I would argue carbon pricing is an ideal 1129 00:47:54,701 --> 00:47:56,400 carbon pricing is an ideal tool, so we calculated if you 1130 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,566 tool, so we calculated if you increase carbon prices in 1131 00:47:57,566 --> 00:47:59,367 increase carbon prices in Europe to some 50 per ton you 1132 00:47:59,367 --> 00:48:02,734 Europe to some 50 per ton you end. With revenues of about 1133 00:48:02,734 --> 00:48:04,600 end. With revenues of about 90000000000 a year, which is 1134 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,933 90000000000 a year, which is not so distant from uh from 1135 00:48:06,933 --> 00:48:10,133 not so distant from uh from about 1% of GDP so that would 1136 00:48:10,133 --> 00:48:12,134 about 1% of GDP so that would be a meaningful contribution to 1137 00:48:12,134 --> 00:48:15,166 be a meaningful contribution to uh to consolidation and as uh 1138 00:48:15,166 --> 00:48:18,066 uh to consolidation and as uh as closing point this uh this 1139 00:48:18,066 --> 00:48:19,967 as closing point this uh this consolidation that we might 1140 00:48:19,967 --> 00:48:21,899 consolidation that we might have after the recovery might 1141 00:48:21,899 --> 00:48:23,800 have after the recovery might serve as a credibility and for 1142 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,367 serve as a credibility and for this carbon pricing so we 1143 00:48:25,367 --> 00:48:26,734 this carbon pricing so we should announce today that we 1144 00:48:26,734 --> 00:48:28,000 should announce today that we want to have significantly 1145 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,966 want to have significantly higher prices to embark on uh 1146 00:48:30,966 --> 00:48:33,433 higher prices to embark on uh substantial. Policies and that 1147 00:48:33,433 --> 00:48:35,900 substantial. Policies and that will put the investments in 1148 00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:37,699 will put the investments in from all sectors into uh into 1149 00:48:37,699 --> 00:48:39,699 from all sectors into uh into the direction that we that 1150 00:48:39,699 --> 00:48:41,034 the direction that we that we’re going to and indeed 1151 00:48:41,034 --> 00:48:43,500 we’re going to and indeed create the the investment 1152 00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:44,166 create the the investment demands that we that we 1153 00:48:44,166 --> 00:48:47,333 demands that we that we currently like thank you. Thank 1154 00:48:47,333 --> 00:48:51,334 currently like thank you. Thank you again for complementing our 1155 00:48:51,334 --> 00:48:52,000 you again for complementing our previous discussion with this 1156 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,334 previous discussion with this focus on carbon pricing. so we 1157 00:48:54,334 --> 00:48:56,000 focus on carbon pricing. so we have now the uh complete I 1158 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,401 have now the uh complete I would say Overview on all the 1159 00:48:58,401 --> 00:49:00,900 would say Overview on all the tools available I would uh 1160 00:49:00,900 --> 00:49:04,434 tools available I would uh like. Turn to the questions 1161 00:49:04,434 --> 00:49:06,734 like. Turn to the questions from our audience since we have 1162 00:49:06,734 --> 00:49:09,467 from our audience since we have a 15 minutes left and uh I 1163 00:49:09,467 --> 00:49:12,234 a 15 minutes left and uh I would like to also engage with 1164 00:49:12,234 --> 00:49:15,300 would like to also engage with uh with uh our audience and uh 1165 00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:18,934 uh with uh our audience and uh I see uh several different uh 1166 00:49:18,934 --> 00:49:21,267 I see uh several different uh interesting questions so if you 1167 00:49:21,267 --> 00:49:23,167 interesting questions so if you have uh please go to do and 1168 00:49:23,167 --> 00:49:25,299 have uh please go to do and with a twenty, you can also 1169 00:49:25,299 --> 00:49:27,000 with a twenty, you can also post your question. The first 1170 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,734 post your question. The first that I see is from uh I think 1171 00:49:29,734 --> 00:49:33,333 that I see is from uh I think your predecessor uh Steven our 1172 00:49:33,333 --> 00:49:37,200 your predecessor uh Steven our current uh colleague. Brutal 1173 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,199 current uh colleague. Brutal Berry that asks how can policy 1174 00:49:42,199 --> 00:49:44,199 Berry that asks how can policy compensate for the green 1175 00:49:44,199 --> 00:49:46,767 compensate for the green paradox of real fossil fuel 1176 00:49:46,767 --> 00:49:49,500 paradox of real fossil fuel prices decline as the energy 1177 00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:51,867 prices decline as the energy transition progresses So can 1178 00:49:51,867 --> 00:49:54,334 transition progresses So can renewables keep pace. So this 1179 00:49:54,334 --> 00:49:56,399 renewables keep pace. So this is the first uh question which 1180 00:49:56,399 --> 00:49:58,833 is the first uh question which I would group to another 1181 00:49:58,833 --> 00:50:01,400 I would group to another question related to let’s say 1182 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,367 question related to let’s say the fossil fuel world, which is 1183 00:50:04,367 --> 00:50:06,433 the fossil fuel world, which is what this shell. but together 1184 00:50:06,433 --> 00:50:08,867 what this shell. but together we shall all oil and gas 1185 00:50:08,867 --> 00:50:12,334 we shall all oil and gas companies completely doing. The 1186 00:50:12,334 --> 00:50:14,833 companies completely doing. The economy and what can they do to 1187 00:50:14,833 --> 00:50:16,367 economy and what can they do to also be part of the green 1188 00:50:16,367 --> 00:50:18,467 also be part of the green recovery? Maybe Steven I would 1189 00:50:18,467 --> 00:50:20,233 recovery? Maybe Steven I would uh start with you if you’re 1190 00:50:20,233 --> 00:50:22,234 uh start with you if you’re great and then we can also 1191 00:50:22,234 --> 00:50:24,400 great and then we can also maybe listen to uh barabbas and 1192 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,900 maybe listen to uh barabbas and gear on these two parts. Okay. 1193 00:50:27,900 --> 00:50:30,333 gear on these two parts. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much 1194 00:50:30,333 --> 00:50:33,167 Thank you. Thank you very much uh so many and uh and and for 1195 00:50:33,167 --> 00:50:35,833 uh so many and uh and and for the those who post the 1196 00:50:35,833 --> 00:50:38,600 the those who post the questions including the sumo 1197 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:43,367 questions including the sumo um. uh. so I think. Um the 1198 00:50:43,367 --> 00:50:46,800 um. uh. so I think. Um the point that Simon raised on uh 1199 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,266 point that Simon raised on uh the shifting relative prices 1200 00:50:49,266 --> 00:50:52,233 the shifting relative prices for energy and what impacts 1201 00:50:52,233 --> 00:50:55,500 for energy and what impacts that has on the green recovery, 1202 00:50:55,500 --> 00:51:02,699 that has on the green recovery, I think our um uh perhaps 1203 00:51:02,699 --> 00:51:04,133 I think our um uh perhaps somewhat overlaying the the 1204 00:51:04,133 --> 00:51:07,366 somewhat overlaying the the short run market dynamics in 1205 00:51:07,366 --> 00:51:10,400 short run market dynamics in the long run and here I’d I’d 1206 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,734 the long run and here I’d I’d like. Go back to some of the 1207 00:51:12,734 --> 00:51:16,400 like. Go back to some of the points that he made on really 1208 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,233 points that he made on really the challenge in all of this is 1209 00:51:20,233 --> 00:51:23,100 the challenge in all of this is anchoring long run expectations 1210 00:51:23,100 --> 00:51:24,266 anchoring long run expectations around the the structural 1211 00:51:24,266 --> 00:51:28,300 around the the structural transformation of of of energy. 1212 00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:33,266 transformation of of of energy. um you gave one kind of pathway 1213 00:51:33,266 --> 00:51:37,034 um you gave one kind of pathway for for for achieving that um, 1214 00:51:37,034 --> 00:51:39,566 for for for achieving that um, but I think the kind of the 1215 00:51:39,566 --> 00:51:40,667 but I think the kind of the conceptual framing of these 1216 00:51:40,667 --> 00:51:43,266 conceptual framing of these pathways or or quite straight. 1217 00:51:43,266 --> 00:51:46,834 pathways or or quite straight. Words um the trick is is 1218 00:51:46,834 --> 00:51:48,799 Words um the trick is is getting the political economy 1219 00:51:48,799 --> 00:51:50,900 getting the political economy considerations right be the 1220 00:51:50,900 --> 00:51:52,533 considerations right be the distribution issues that 1221 00:51:52,533 --> 00:51:55,000 distribution issues that Samantha was rightly 1222 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,966 Samantha was rightly emphasizing or indeed dealing 1223 00:51:57,966 --> 00:52:00,233 emphasizing or indeed dealing with credibility issues and in 1224 00:52:00,233 --> 00:52:01,966 with credibility issues and in government policy making and 1225 00:52:01,966 --> 00:52:05,733 government policy making and potential time Inc and lack of 1226 00:52:05,733 --> 00:52:07,300 potential time Inc and lack of complete markets, particularly 1227 00:52:07,300 --> 00:52:08,799 complete markets, particularly around the future price of a 1228 00:52:08,799 --> 00:52:13,867 around the future price of a mission. so so I think that um 1229 00:52:13,867 --> 00:52:16,534 mission. so so I think that um uh. The answer to summons 1230 00:52:16,534 --> 00:52:22,299 uh. The answer to summons question is really solving Ors 1231 00:52:22,299 --> 00:52:24,000 question is really solving Ors challenge, but II would take a 1232 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,600 challenge, but II would take a slightly more nuanced approach. 1233 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,400 slightly more nuanced approach. then you’re with was taking to 1234 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,801 then you’re with was taking to anchoring long run expectations 1235 00:52:34,801 --> 00:52:37,266 anchoring long run expectations and on the right end goals for 1236 00:52:37,266 --> 00:52:42,600 and on the right end goals for for the energy system and here 1237 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:43,733 for the energy system and here I would just say we need to 1238 00:52:43,733 --> 00:52:46,033 I would just say we need to look carefully at at what’s 1239 00:52:46,033 --> 00:52:47,400 look carefully at at what’s actually happened in the 1240 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,733 actually happened in the transformation. Of energy so 1241 00:52:50,733 --> 00:52:52,534 transformation. Of energy so far the critically important 1242 00:52:52,534 --> 00:52:54,933 far the critically important roles that industrial policies 1243 00:52:54,933 --> 00:52:59,699 roles that industrial policies have had at getting the clean 1244 00:52:59,699 --> 00:53:00,266 have had at getting the clean technology out of their 1245 00:53:00,266 --> 00:53:02,700 technology out of their formative starting blocks into 1246 00:53:02,700 --> 00:53:05,733 formative starting blocks into the marketplace and capable of 1247 00:53:05,733 --> 00:53:08,199 the marketplace and capable of scaling and here I think that 1248 00:53:08,199 --> 00:53:11,700 scaling and here I think that getting the right sequencing of 1249 00:53:11,700 --> 00:53:13,433 getting the right sequencing of the formative policies creating 1250 00:53:13,433 --> 00:53:15,799 the formative policies creating the knowledge the know-how the 1251 00:53:15,799 --> 00:53:18,000 the knowledge the know-how the capabilities for transforming 1252 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,099 capabilities for transforming energy. energy in place. 1253 00:53:21,099 --> 00:53:23,866 energy. energy in place. Building confidence and shaping 1254 00:53:23,866 --> 00:53:25,267 Building confidence and shaping expectations not only in terms 1255 00:53:25,267 --> 00:53:27,967 expectations not only in terms of the mission pricing, but in 1256 00:53:27,967 --> 00:53:29,633 of the mission pricing, but in what the long run configuration 1257 00:53:29,633 --> 00:53:31,799 what the long run configuration of the energy system might 1258 00:53:31,799 --> 00:53:35,266 of the energy system might possibly look like as a way of 1259 00:53:35,266 --> 00:53:36,800 possibly look like as a way of of accelerating the 1260 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,833 of accelerating the transformation of the sector. 1261 00:53:39,833 --> 00:53:42,334 transformation of the sector. and so I think the key here is 1262 00:53:42,334 --> 00:53:45,167 and so I think the key here is getting the right sequencing of 1263 00:53:45,167 --> 00:53:47,367 getting the right sequencing of policies the right sequence of 1264 00:53:47,367 --> 00:53:49,467 policies the right sequence of industrial policies building 1265 00:53:49,467 --> 00:53:50,333 industrial policies building confidence in creating the 1266 00:53:50,333 --> 00:53:53,167 confidence in creating the political space for mission 1267 00:53:53,167 --> 00:53:56,567 political space for mission pricing over time. I think that 1268 00:53:56,567 --> 00:53:58,766 pricing over time. I think that would go a long way to 1269 00:53:58,766 --> 00:54:02,700 would go a long way to addressing concerns on kind of 1270 00:54:02,700 --> 00:54:04,299 addressing concerns on kind of an adverse short run shift in 1271 00:54:04,299 --> 00:54:07,700 an adverse short run shift in relative prices from the a 1272 00:54:07,700 --> 00:54:09,933 relative prices from the a green transformation 1273 00:54:09,933 --> 00:54:12,267 green transformation perspective um uh the the 1274 00:54:12,267 --> 00:54:14,700 perspective um uh the the second issue is what are 1275 00:54:14,700 --> 00:54:18,400 second issue is what are companies like Shell doing um 1276 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:19,633 companies like Shell doing um what are kind of what is the 1277 00:54:19,633 --> 00:54:22,699 what are kind of what is the oil and gas industry doing um 1278 00:54:22,699 --> 00:54:26,767 oil and gas industry doing um to invest in the transformation 1279 00:54:26,767 --> 00:54:30,299 to invest in the transformation of of energy and here I. Would 1280 00:54:30,299 --> 00:54:32,767 of of energy and here I. Would simply point to quite a few 1281 00:54:32,767 --> 00:54:35,699 simply point to quite a few things and the oil and gas 1282 00:54:35,699 --> 00:54:36,900 things and the oil and gas industry, particularly in 1283 00:54:36,900 --> 00:54:39,133 industry, particularly in Europe, is very much helped 1284 00:54:39,133 --> 00:54:41,100 Europe, is very much helped pioneer the development of 1285 00:54:41,100 --> 00:54:42,834 pioneer the development of offshore wind, which is 1286 00:54:42,834 --> 00:54:45,233 offshore wind, which is arguably the most abundant 1287 00:54:45,233 --> 00:54:46,934 arguably the most abundant renewable resource space that 1288 00:54:46,934 --> 00:54:49,266 renewable resource space that can be economically monetize, 1289 00:54:49,266 --> 00:54:50,699 can be economically monetize, particularly for northwest 1290 00:54:50,699 --> 00:54:54,667 particularly for northwest Europe. Um we’re involved in 1291 00:54:54,667 --> 00:54:57,266 Europe. Um we’re involved in building on that renewable 1292 00:54:57,266 --> 00:55:01,699 building on that renewable resource capability um to. 1293 00:55:01,699 --> 00:55:02,500 resource capability um to. Pathways for for green 1294 00:55:02,500 --> 00:55:05,700 Pathways for for green hydrogen, for example when 1295 00:55:05,700 --> 00:55:06,533 hydrogen, for example when demonstration projects in the 1296 00:55:06,533 --> 00:55:09,967 demonstration projects in the north of the Netherlands um so 1297 00:55:09,967 --> 00:55:11,200 north of the Netherlands um so that’s kind of on the 1298 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:12,733 that’s kind of on the technology and the upstream 1299 00:55:12,733 --> 00:55:15,299 technology and the upstream side, and of course on the 1300 00:55:15,299 --> 00:55:16,733 side, and of course on the customer side, the energy and 1301 00:55:16,733 --> 00:55:17,967 customer side, the energy and user side we’re working quite 1302 00:55:17,967 --> 00:55:20,933 user side we’re working quite closely with both our our our 1303 00:55:20,933 --> 00:55:21,733 closely with both our our our business and and retail 1304 00:55:21,733 --> 00:55:23,234 business and and retail customers to help them make 1305 00:55:23,234 --> 00:55:26,333 customers to help them make better choices around energy. 1306 00:55:26,333 --> 00:55:28,733 better choices around energy. So I think we’re very much 1307 00:55:28,733 --> 00:55:31,767 So I think we’re very much active participants. In 1308 00:55:31,767 --> 00:55:33,834 active participants. In investing in the green 1309 00:55:33,834 --> 00:55:35,267 investing in the green transformation and helping 1310 00:55:35,267 --> 00:55:37,367 transformation and helping others make similar 1311 00:55:37,367 --> 00:55:40,699 others make similar investments. 1312 00:55:40,699 --> 00:55:40,766 investments. Thank you, 1313 00:55:40,766 --> 00:55:43,767 Thank you, Steven and uh I saw 1314 00:55:43,767 --> 00:55:46,367 Thank you, Steven and uh I saw that Samantha wanted to react 1315 00:55:46,367 --> 00:55:48,933 that Samantha wanted to react to these questions and then 1316 00:55:48,933 --> 00:55:51,600 to these questions and then back here. That’s sure thanks 1317 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,333 back here. That’s sure thanks and Stephen and also thanks to 1318 00:55:53,333 --> 00:55:55,567 and Stephen and also thanks to the question. So we have uh we 1319 00:55:55,567 --> 00:55:57,301 the question. So we have uh we have a process going with 1320 00:55:57,301 --> 00:55:59,267 have a process going with federations and unions from oil 1321 00:55:59,267 --> 00:56:00,799 federations and unions from oil producing countries, giving it 1322 00:56:00,799 --> 00:56:02,434 producing countries, giving it includes the unions that 1323 00:56:02,434 --> 00:56:05,267 includes the unions that organized Shell just FYI about 1324 00:56:05,267 --> 00:56:06,467 organized Shell just FYI about just transition and the oil and 1325 00:56:06,467 --> 00:56:08,099 just transition and the oil and gas and more broadly the energy 1326 00:56:08,099 --> 00:56:11,167 gas and more broadly the energy sector. So it’s exactly this. 1327 00:56:11,167 --> 00:56:12,833 sector. So it’s exactly this. You know what needs to happen 1328 00:56:12,833 --> 00:56:15,266 You know what needs to happen in these companies in the 1329 00:56:15,266 --> 00:56:17,733 in these companies in the supply chain so that uh so that 1330 00:56:17,733 --> 00:56:19,834 supply chain so that uh so that the company is continue to 1331 00:56:19,834 --> 00:56:22,299 the company is continue to exist and employ people um in a 1332 00:56:22,299 --> 00:56:23,467 exist and employ people um in a world where we’re bringing down 1333 00:56:23,467 --> 00:56:26,533 world where we’re bringing down the missions and indeed you 1334 00:56:26,533 --> 00:56:29,033 the missions and indeed you have what you put it out there. 1335 00:56:29,033 --> 00:56:30,566 have what you put it out there. You have a short term and a 1336 00:56:30,566 --> 00:56:32,734 You have a short term and a long term perspective right so 1337 00:56:32,734 --> 00:56:34,234 long term perspective right so the long-term perspective is 1338 00:56:34,234 --> 00:56:37,734 the long-term perspective is that where uh for various 1339 00:56:37,734 --> 00:56:39,801 that where uh for various reasons probably because public 1340 00:56:39,801 --> 00:56:41,367 reasons probably because public policy and public investment 1341 00:56:41,367 --> 00:56:42,366 policy and public investment are not yet aggressive enough, 1342 00:56:42,366 --> 00:56:44,167 are not yet aggressive enough, you can’t start employing 1343 00:56:44,167 --> 00:56:47,433 you can’t start employing people tomorrow and for. 1344 00:56:47,433 --> 00:56:49,634 people tomorrow and for. Producing hydrogen or building 1345 00:56:49,634 --> 00:56:51,467 Producing hydrogen or building more carbon capture and storage 1346 00:56:51,467 --> 00:56:54,200 more carbon capture and storage units, however, if you were to 1347 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:55,767 units, however, if you were to suddenly increase the 1348 00:56:55,767 --> 00:56:56,799 suddenly increase the aggressiveness of those 1349 00:56:56,799 --> 00:56:59,834 aggressiveness of those commitments um I suspect having 1350 00:56:59,834 --> 00:57:02,500 commitments um I suspect having worked in uh having worked in 1351 00:57:02,500 --> 00:57:03,934 worked in uh having worked in an oil and gas company that you 1352 00:57:03,934 --> 00:57:05,900 an oil and gas company that you would see companies immediately 1353 00:57:05,900 --> 00:57:07,334 would see companies immediately start to chase those 1354 00:57:07,334 --> 00:57:08,700 start to chase those investments and targets and 1355 00:57:08,700 --> 00:57:10,399 investments and targets and also start to employ more 1356 00:57:10,399 --> 00:57:13,700 also start to employ more people in the short term and 1357 00:57:13,700 --> 00:57:15,267 people in the short term and there are actually a lot of 1358 00:57:15,267 --> 00:57:18,267 there are actually a lot of things that uh that people who 1359 00:57:18,267 --> 00:57:19,500 things that uh that people who until recently were employed in 1360 00:57:19,500 --> 00:57:23,400 until recently were employed in oil and gas uh can do and. Jobs 1361 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:24,133 oil and gas uh can do and. Jobs that can be created for them, 1362 00:57:24,133 --> 00:57:25,967 that can be created for them, not all those jobs will be in 1363 00:57:25,967 --> 00:57:29,734 not all those jobs will be in oil and gas um, but you need to 1364 00:57:29,734 --> 00:57:33,833 oil and gas um, but you need to get people back to work or use 1365 00:57:33,833 --> 00:57:35,167 get people back to work or use income support and training 1366 00:57:35,167 --> 00:57:36,700 income support and training programs in order to have the 1367 00:57:36,700 --> 00:57:38,234 programs in order to have the workforce ready for the point 1368 00:57:38,234 --> 00:57:40,800 workforce ready for the point where the where the new jobs 1369 00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,600 where the where the new jobs and greener parts of the energy 1370 00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,934 and greener parts of the energy sector exists and some of the 1371 00:57:45,934 --> 00:57:47,400 sector exists and some of the jobs that uh the people can do 1372 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,934 jobs that uh the people can do is uh terrestrial or when 1373 00:57:49,934 --> 00:57:51,833 is uh terrestrial or when based, oil and gas production. 1374 00:57:51,833 --> 00:57:53,633 based, oil and gas production. Or things like capping and 1375 00:57:53,633 --> 00:57:57,066 Or things like capping and remediation old wells um and 1376 00:57:57,066 --> 00:57:58,367 remediation old wells um and clean up some of those jobs are 1377 00:57:58,367 --> 00:57:59,933 clean up some of those jobs are very suitable. so I just want 1378 00:57:59,933 --> 00:58:01,566 very suitable. so I just want to say that there are a range 1379 00:58:01,566 --> 00:58:03,734 to say that there are a range of things companies can do um 1380 00:58:03,734 --> 00:58:05,433 of things companies can do um you know with all respect to 1381 00:58:05,433 --> 00:58:06,834 you know with all respect to shell and other oil and gas 1382 00:58:06,834 --> 00:58:07,967 shell and other oil and gas companies. you’re a little 1383 00:58:07,967 --> 00:58:10,367 companies. you’re a little timid in your embrace of the 1384 00:58:10,367 --> 00:58:11,767 timid in your embrace of the green transition and there are 1385 00:58:11,767 --> 00:58:13,233 green transition and there are things governments can do to 1386 00:58:13,233 --> 00:58:15,933 things governments can do to drive immediate and long-term 1387 00:58:15,933 --> 00:58:19,067 drive immediate and long-term job creation. 1388 00:58:20,201 --> 00:58:22,133 Man do you want to react or 1389 00:58:22,133 --> 00:58:25,733 Man do you want to react or should we switch to other 1390 00:58:25,733 --> 00:58:29,333 should we switch to other questions that they see coming 1391 00:58:29,333 --> 00:58:32,700 questions that they see coming up? um briefly on the on the 1392 00:58:32,700 --> 00:58:34,800 up? um briefly on the on the green paradox question. Um in 1393 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,867 green paradox question. Um in general, I agreed that um the 1394 00:58:37,867 --> 00:58:42,767 general, I agreed that um the issue of we theorize a price 1395 00:58:42,767 --> 00:58:44,167 issue of we theorize a price decrease because of lower 1396 00:58:44,167 --> 00:58:46,699 decrease because of lower demand and uh because the the 1397 00:58:46,699 --> 00:58:48,300 demand and uh because the the oil and gas is simply in place 1398 00:58:48,300 --> 00:58:51,234 oil and gas is simply in place is an issue. so the 1399 00:58:51,234 --> 00:58:52,133 is an issue. so the capitalization will remain 1400 00:58:52,133 --> 00:58:54,767 capitalization will remain probably an uphill battle. 1401 00:58:54,767 --> 00:58:58,866 probably an uphill battle. Until uh until the last uh turn 1402 00:58:58,866 --> 00:59:01,299 Until uh until the last uh turn off, I’ll see you at two um but 1403 00:59:01,299 --> 00:59:03,134 off, I’ll see you at two um but I think uh in contrast to what 1404 00:59:03,134 --> 00:59:05,566 I think uh in contrast to what the initial papers and paradox 1405 00:59:05,566 --> 00:59:07,367 the initial papers and paradox we are they’re claiming I think 1406 00:59:07,367 --> 00:59:09,734 we are they’re claiming I think they um they underestimated a 1407 00:59:09,734 --> 00:59:11,434 they um they underestimated a bit uh the role of technology 1408 00:59:11,434 --> 00:59:13,734 bit uh the role of technology development so the drop in uh 1409 00:59:13,734 --> 00:59:16,234 development so the drop in uh in renewable technology in the 1410 00:59:16,234 --> 00:59:19,567 in renewable technology in the past decade, the the quick uh 1411 00:59:19,567 --> 00:59:21,434 past decade, the the quick uh increase in uh electric 1412 00:59:21,434 --> 00:59:23,367 increase in uh electric technology and improvements. 1413 00:59:23,367 --> 00:59:26,133 technology and improvements. And then the cost 1414 00:59:26,133 --> 00:59:28,300 And then the cost competitiveness and also better 1415 00:59:28,300 --> 00:59:31,433 competitiveness and also better technology um they let me to 1416 00:59:31,433 --> 00:59:33,733 technology um they let me to believe that uh that this green 1417 00:59:33,733 --> 00:59:36,367 believe that uh that this green paradox seem to be uh possible 1418 00:59:36,367 --> 00:59:38,833 paradox seem to be uh possible to overcome in the technology 1419 00:59:38,833 --> 00:59:41,667 to overcome in the technology side on the uh any question of 1420 00:59:41,667 --> 00:59:43,567 side on the uh any question of um Steven somehow on the on the 1421 00:59:43,567 --> 00:59:45,167 um Steven somehow on the on the sequencing of policies and the 1422 00:59:45,167 --> 00:59:47,167 sequencing of policies and the uh and the and the kind of 1423 00:59:47,167 --> 00:59:49,066 uh and the and the kind of politically uh a political 1424 00:59:49,066 --> 00:59:51,967 politically uh a political economy of phasing in uh carbon 1425 00:59:51,967 --> 00:59:55,133 economy of phasing in uh carbon pricing. Um yes we have. In 1426 00:59:55,133 --> 00:59:56,434 pricing. Um yes we have. In Europe for a long time to get 1427 00:59:56,434 --> 00:59:57,967 Europe for a long time to get uh still the relatively modest 1428 00:59:57,967 --> 01:00:00,266 uh still the relatively modest carbon price until now and uh 1429 01:00:00,266 --> 01:00:03,267 carbon price until now and uh it will not get easier because 1430 01:00:03,267 --> 01:00:05,500 it will not get easier because um uh it uh it has caused to 1431 01:00:05,500 --> 01:00:07,400 um uh it uh it has caused to the population and uh and to 1432 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,300 the population and uh and to industry, but my argument would 1433 01:00:09,300 --> 01:00:11,233 industry, but my argument would be that uh as a crisis as a 1434 01:00:11,233 --> 01:00:14,866 be that uh as a crisis as a moments of of redefining uh 1435 01:00:14,866 --> 01:00:16,867 moments of of redefining uh policy settings um this is a 1436 01:00:16,867 --> 01:00:19,134 policy settings um this is a policy setting in in which 1437 01:00:19,134 --> 01:00:20,367 policy setting in in which carbon pricing might actually 1438 01:00:20,367 --> 01:00:21,767 carbon pricing might actually be on the only political or 1439 01:00:21,767 --> 01:00:22,733 be on the only political or should be on the political 1440 01:00:22,733 --> 01:00:24,334 should be on the political agenda and mainly because of 1441 01:00:24,334 --> 01:00:25,966 agenda and mainly because of the consolidation need for uh 1442 01:00:25,966 --> 01:00:27,500 the consolidation need for uh for fiscal sustainability of 1443 01:00:27,500 --> 01:00:29,000 for fiscal sustainability of the uh of the recovery 1444 01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,267 the uh of the recovery programs. So that we are now uh 1445 01:00:33,267 --> 01:00:35,167 programs. So that we are now uh a future increase in carbon 1446 01:00:35,167 --> 01:00:37,166 a future increase in carbon prices by saying we could take 1447 01:00:37,166 --> 01:00:38,866 prices by saying we could take we essentially borrowed the 1448 01:00:38,866 --> 01:00:40,600 we essentially borrowed the money uh today that we invest 1449 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,434 money uh today that we invest in in recovery projects from 1450 01:00:43,434 --> 01:00:45,700 in in recovery projects from the future revenues of carbon 1451 01:00:45,700 --> 01:00:46,899 the future revenues of carbon pricing and I would think that 1452 01:00:46,899 --> 01:00:48,533 pricing and I would think that at the this could do a much 1453 01:00:48,533 --> 01:00:50,000 at the this could do a much more to a green recovery than 1454 01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,866 more to a green recovery than uh than many any video projects 1455 01:00:52,866 --> 01:00:56,201 uh than many any video projects taken together. Thank you. Buh 1456 01:00:56,201 --> 01:00:58,799 taken together. Thank you. Buh bye. Do you also want to uh to 1457 01:00:58,799 --> 01:01:02,434 bye. Do you also want to uh to intervene or yeah I can. Make 1458 01:01:02,434 --> 01:01:04,734 intervene or yeah I can. Make my personal experience on this 1459 01:01:04,734 --> 01:01:06,234 my personal experience on this topic so when I finished my 1460 01:01:06,234 --> 01:01:10,500 topic so when I finished my mastering engineering in 1994, 1461 01:01:10,500 --> 01:01:11,700 mastering engineering in 1994, the very principle no jobs 1462 01:01:11,700 --> 01:01:14,233 the very principle no jobs available for energy efficiency 1463 01:01:14,233 --> 01:01:14,867 available for energy efficiency engineers whatsoever because 1464 01:01:14,867 --> 01:01:16,867 engineers whatsoever because the oil price was solo with us 1465 01:01:16,867 --> 01:01:19,267 the oil price was solo with us about $19 and I think at that 1466 01:01:19,267 --> 01:01:21,434 about $19 and I think at that time it clearly had an impact 1467 01:01:21,434 --> 01:01:23,699 time it clearly had an impact on the appetite to really 1468 01:01:23,699 --> 01:01:25,334 on the appetite to really become greener and deficient 1469 01:01:25,334 --> 01:01:27,866 become greener and deficient now when I compared it to 1470 01:01:27,866 --> 01:01:29,300 now when I compared it to twenty or what happened in the 1471 01:01:29,300 --> 01:01:32,299 twenty or what happened in the last 2 years. There is now more 1472 01:01:32,299 --> 01:01:34,734 last 2 years. There is now more and more voices coming from 1473 01:01:34,734 --> 01:01:35,967 and more voices coming from investors specifically also 1474 01:01:35,967 --> 01:01:37,433 investors specifically also when we look at the building 1475 01:01:37,433 --> 01:01:39,634 when we look at the building sector who say look if you 1476 01:01:39,634 --> 01:01:40,933 sector who say look if you invest in an asset, we should 1477 01:01:40,933 --> 01:01:42,966 invest in an asset, we should live for the next 40 years and 1478 01:01:42,966 --> 01:01:45,234 live for the next 40 years and to really maintain the value of 1479 01:01:45,234 --> 01:01:46,867 to really maintain the value of this asset, you really need to 1480 01:01:46,867 --> 01:01:49,200 this asset, you really need to go to a sustainable approach 1481 01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:50,934 go to a sustainable approach and this is in principle, 1482 01:01:50,934 --> 01:01:52,500 and this is in principle, independent of oil and gas in 1483 01:01:52,500 --> 01:01:54,900 independent of oil and gas in that sense. so from my point of 1484 01:01:54,900 --> 01:01:58,234 that sense. so from my point of view, there is a clear shift in 1485 01:01:58,234 --> 01:01:59,333 view, there is a clear shift in attitude specific goals around 1486 01:01:59,333 --> 01:02:01,133 attitude specific goals around the financial community towards 1487 01:02:01,133 --> 01:02:02,967 the financial community towards this topic and I think that’s a 1488 01:02:02,967 --> 01:02:06,433 this topic and I think that’s a positive. We have to use thank 1489 01:02:06,433 --> 01:02:08,699 positive. We have to use thank you. thank you as we are 1490 01:02:08,699 --> 01:02:10,334 you. thank you as we are heading towards the end of our 1491 01:02:10,334 --> 01:02:12,734 heading towards the end of our panel. I think we can now go 1492 01:02:12,734 --> 01:02:15,667 panel. I think we can now go back to our pool and uh see 1493 01:02:15,667 --> 01:02:18,600 back to our pool and uh see what is the result so uh the 1494 01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:20,933 what is the result so uh the result of the polling is that, 1495 01:02:20,933 --> 01:02:22,767 result of the polling is that, according to our audience, the 1496 01:02:22,767 --> 01:02:24,467 according to our audience, the best policy option to deliver a 1497 01:02:24,467 --> 01:02:26,567 best policy option to deliver a great recovery are Greening 1498 01:02:26,567 --> 01:02:28,900 great recovery are Greening investments followed by carbon 1499 01:02:28,900 --> 01:02:30,400 investments followed by carbon pricing and then green 1500 01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:31,900 pricing and then green conditional to stay there so 1501 01:02:31,900 --> 01:02:35,633 conditional to stay there so since uh. Consensus uh 1502 01:02:35,633 --> 01:02:37,866 since uh. Consensus uh converted on the green 1503 01:02:37,866 --> 01:02:39,500 converted on the green investments, let me then, 1504 01:02:39,500 --> 01:02:41,699 investments, let me then, according to the Democratic we 1505 01:02:41,699 --> 01:02:42,966 according to the Democratic we follow pick up a question from 1506 01:02:42,966 --> 01:02:44,634 follow pick up a question from the audience on the issue of 1507 01:02:44,634 --> 01:02:46,367 the audience on the issue of investments and the 1508 01:02:46,367 --> 01:02:47,367 investments and the particularly let me pick up a 1509 01:02:47,367 --> 01:02:48,867 particularly let me pick up a question from Professor uh 1510 01:02:48,867 --> 01:02:51,633 question from Professor uh renew the regulars on how to 1511 01:02:51,633 --> 01:02:54,499 renew the regulars on how to avoid when picking public 1512 01:02:54,499 --> 01:02:55,633 avoid when picking public investment projects in certain 1513 01:02:55,633 --> 01:02:58,266 investment projects in certain technologies the negative 1514 01:02:58,266 --> 01:03:01,066 technologies the negative external on other green 1515 01:03:01,066 --> 01:03:02,500 external on other green technologies so to close the 1516 01:03:02,500 --> 01:03:04,733 technologies so to close the panel, maybe uh last word to 1517 01:03:04,733 --> 01:03:07,067 panel, maybe uh last word to you all how would you advise 1518 01:03:07,067 --> 01:03:10,867 you all how would you advise policy makers? Completely put 1519 01:03:10,867 --> 01:03:13,233 policy makers? Completely put in action the green investments 1520 01:03:13,233 --> 01:03:13,966 in action the green investments agenda they will have to do 1521 01:03:13,966 --> 01:03:17,367 agenda they will have to do over the next months and years, 1522 01:03:17,367 --> 01:03:19,633 over the next months and years, maybe Samantha do you want to 1523 01:03:19,633 --> 01:03:23,766 maybe Samantha do you want to start sure uh two things I mean 1524 01:03:23,766 --> 01:03:25,400 start sure uh two things I mean one is that we have to add the 1525 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:26,300 one is that we have to add the social element to investments, 1526 01:03:26,300 --> 01:03:27,800 social element to investments, which is something that’s 1527 01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:29,099 which is something that’s happening In addition to what 1528 01:03:29,099 --> 01:03:31,234 happening In addition to what you mentioned Barbara investors 1529 01:03:31,234 --> 01:03:33,633 you mentioned Barbara investors are also starting to require 1530 01:03:33,633 --> 01:03:37,233 are also starting to require evidence that uh companies are 1531 01:03:37,233 --> 01:03:38,667 evidence that uh companies are actually adhering to basic 1532 01:03:38,667 --> 01:03:40,133 actually adhering to basic human rights principles, which 1533 01:03:40,133 --> 01:03:42,733 human rights principles, which include labor rights. And just 1534 01:03:42,733 --> 01:03:45,133 include labor rights. And just to mention that the labor 1535 01:03:45,133 --> 01:03:46,734 to mention that the labor movement we’re responsible for 1536 01:03:46,734 --> 01:03:48,734 movement we’re responsible for tens of trillions of workers 1537 01:03:48,734 --> 01:03:50,866 tens of trillions of workers capital in our pension funds. 1538 01:03:50,866 --> 01:03:52,767 capital in our pension funds. We’re also starting to push 1539 01:03:52,767 --> 01:03:54,833 We’re also starting to push that capital to projects that 1540 01:03:54,833 --> 01:03:56,867 that capital to projects that are supplying good jobs. The 1541 01:03:56,867 --> 01:03:57,433 are supplying good jobs. The other thing is that we know 1542 01:03:57,433 --> 01:03:58,767 other thing is that we know what we need to know actually 1543 01:03:58,767 --> 01:04:00,999 what we need to know actually about what technology we need 1544 01:04:00,999 --> 01:04:02,867 about what technology we need to bring down emissions. so the 1545 01:04:02,867 --> 01:04:05,566 to bring down emissions. so the risk of you know uh picking 1546 01:04:05,566 --> 01:04:06,899 risk of you know uh picking winners and we know what the 1547 01:04:06,899 --> 01:04:08,700 winners and we know what the winners are. It’s not too hard 1548 01:04:08,700 --> 01:04:10,267 winners are. It’s not too hard at this point to put money 1549 01:04:10,267 --> 01:04:11,066 at this point to put money towards them and so personally, 1550 01:04:11,066 --> 01:04:12,800 towards them and so personally, I don’t see this risk of 1551 01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:14,466 I don’t see this risk of crowding out other things. 1552 01:04:14,466 --> 01:04:16,867 crowding out other things. Promising we’re gonna pass that 1553 01:04:16,867 --> 01:04:19,500 Promising we’re gonna pass that point. Thank you very quickly. 1554 01:04:19,500 --> 01:04:21,134 point. Thank you very quickly. Do you want to make your point? 1555 01:04:21,134 --> 01:04:22,433 Do you want to make your point? I think it’s really important 1556 01:04:22,433 --> 01:04:23,834 I think it’s really important that the policy makers are 1557 01:04:23,834 --> 01:04:25,833 that the policy makers are setting the targets in the 1558 01:04:25,833 --> 01:04:27,767 setting the targets in the sense of uh efficiency of 1559 01:04:27,767 --> 01:04:28,867 sense of uh efficiency of future buildings. What is the 1560 01:04:28,867 --> 01:04:30,000 future buildings. What is the level that they need to reach 1561 01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:31,233 level that they need to reach in the next 10 years? What is 1562 01:04:31,233 --> 01:04:32,000 in the next 10 years? What is the level that they need to 1563 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:33,933 the level that they need to reach in the next 50 years and 1564 01:04:33,933 --> 01:04:35,867 reach in the next 50 years and this is from my point of view a 1565 01:04:35,867 --> 01:04:38,267 this is from my point of view a very successful model to also 1566 01:04:38,267 --> 01:04:39,500 very successful model to also stimulate and this industry, 1567 01:04:39,500 --> 01:04:41,300 stimulate and this industry, and I think also are coming 1568 01:04:41,300 --> 01:04:42,334 and I think also are coming back to the point regarding 1569 01:04:42,334 --> 01:04:46,467 back to the point regarding social, usually those pro. 1570 01:05:17,799 --> 01:05:19,399 Now, my second point would be 1571 01:05:19,399 --> 01:05:23,333 Now, my second point would be to agree with Samantha’s point 1572 01:05:23,333 --> 01:05:25,834 to agree with Samantha’s point that um that I think the risk 1573 01:05:25,834 --> 01:05:28,767 that um that I think the risk of of government picking the 1574 01:05:28,767 --> 01:05:31,299 of of government picking the so-called wrong winners in in 1575 01:05:31,299 --> 01:05:34,266 so-called wrong winners in in this is is really quite 1576 01:05:34,266 --> 01:05:35,766 this is is really quite limited. What’s come through 1577 01:05:35,766 --> 01:05:38,267 limited. What’s come through the The innovation funnel is 1578 01:05:38,267 --> 01:05:42,400 the The innovation funnel is the result of many drivers and 1579 01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,334 the result of many drivers and many fundamental economic 1580 01:05:44,334 --> 01:05:45,899 many fundamental economic drivers, and I think it’s 1581 01:05:45,899 --> 01:05:47,400 drivers, and I think it’s increasingly clear what. what 1582 01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,966 increasingly clear what. what the feasible. OF of technology 1583 01:05:49,966 --> 01:05:53,267 the feasible. OF of technology to deliver the carbonation of 1584 01:05:53,267 --> 01:05:56,267 to deliver the carbonation of energy or um so I think that 1585 01:05:56,267 --> 01:05:57,934 energy or um so I think that risk is is quite minimal so 1586 01:05:57,934 --> 01:05:59,100 risk is is quite minimal so very much agree with Samantha 1587 01:05:59,100 --> 01:06:01,333 very much agree with Samantha on that last point. So, thanks. 1588 01:06:01,333 --> 01:06:02,700 on that last point. So, thanks. thanks very much. Thank you. 1589 01:06:02,700 --> 01:06:05,834 thanks very much. Thank you. Thank you. Steven G the last 1590 01:06:05,834 --> 01:06:09,500 Thank you. Steven G the last word to you. 1591 01:06:44,966 --> 01:06:47,400 But what needs to find an exit 1592 01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:48,733 But what needs to find an exit out of uh out of that point 1593 01:06:48,733 --> 01:06:51,201 out of uh out of that point when they are allow to to 1594 01:06:51,201 --> 01:06:52,000 when they are allow to to really be on the market and 1595 01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,600 really be on the market and then have to compete with uh uh 1596 01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:55,867 then have to compete with uh uh with with all available 1597 01:06:55,867 --> 01:06:57,866 with with all available technology and um I don’t know 1598 01:06:57,866 --> 01:06:59,367 technology and um I don’t know for the we don’t have time to 1599 01:06:59,367 --> 01:07:00,800 for the we don’t have time to do it to explore a deeper here 1600 01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,334 do it to explore a deeper here but uh I would have questions 1601 01:07:02,334 --> 01:07:04,000 but uh I would have questions because we we talked a lot 1602 01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,899 because we we talked a lot about uh housing and uh I think 1603 01:07:07,899 --> 01:07:11,300 about uh housing and uh I think keeping citizens warm is uh we 1604 01:07:11,300 --> 01:07:13,166 keeping citizens warm is uh we still see very different 1605 01:07:13,166 --> 01:07:14,266 still see very different solutions. We have discussions 1606 01:07:14,266 --> 01:07:16,467 solutions. We have discussions on on hydrogen discussions on 1607 01:07:16,467 --> 01:07:19,833 on on hydrogen discussions on heat pumps and uh. Uh and 1608 01:07:19,833 --> 01:07:23,600 heat pumps and uh. Uh and Dehumanize Gass and um so I 1609 01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:24,967 Dehumanize Gass and um so I think this this race is not yet 1610 01:07:24,967 --> 01:07:27,167 think this this race is not yet over and we we should keep an 1611 01:07:27,167 --> 01:07:28,867 over and we we should keep an open mind about uh supporting 1612 01:07:28,867 --> 01:07:31,134 open mind about uh supporting that which should not hold us 1613 01:07:31,134 --> 01:07:32,933 that which should not hold us back from doing a lot of uh uh 1614 01:07:32,933 --> 01:07:34,600 back from doing a lot of uh uh a lot of things there, but we 1615 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:38,700 a lot of things there, but we um uh yeah we should not pick 1616 01:07:38,700 --> 01:07:41,266 um uh yeah we should not pick being with us. That’s a rule. I 1617 01:07:41,266 --> 01:07:42,333 being with us. That’s a rule. I think that’s our policy. Thank 1618 01:07:42,333 --> 01:07:44,933 think that’s our policy. Thank you very much. Thank you very 1619 01:07:44,933 --> 01:07:47,334 you very much. Thank you very much to you all for this hour, 1620 01:07:47,334 --> 01:07:48,900 much to you all for this hour, which I personally found the 1621 01:07:48,900 --> 01:07:52,267 which I personally found the insightful. And I hope that our 1622 01:07:52,267 --> 01:07:54,801 insightful. And I hope that our audience also found that so 1623 01:07:54,801 --> 01:07:56,433 audience also found that so began meeting is not over. We 1624 01:07:56,433 --> 01:07:58,767 began meeting is not over. We have uh 1 day in the half of 1625 01:07:58,767 --> 01:07:59,700 have uh 1 day in the half of full of other sessions inside 1626 01:07:59,700 --> 01:08:02,767 full of other sessions inside of us. The next step is enough 1627 01:08:02,767 --> 01:08:04,301 of us. The next step is enough an hour and it is devoted to 1628 01:08:04,301 --> 01:08:07,266 an hour and it is devoted to building inclusive future for 1629 01:08:07,266 --> 01:08:10,633 building inclusive future for workers in Europe so same place 1630 01:08:10,633 --> 01:08:13,299 workers in Europe so same place different speakers enjoy the 1631 01:08:13,299 --> 01:08:14,099 different speakers enjoy the future sessions. Thank you 1632 01:08:14,099 --> 01:08:18,399 future sessions. Thank you again for the best.